Rotkee vs. Pico

Yeah I'm not really sure why you guys are having issues... it took about a month to come to me in the US and I got a tracking number right away.

Hello,
The concept of implementing automatic processing of automotive signals was started in 2007 by Andrew Shulgin.


All of our developments have been published in various automotive magazines:
March 20, 2012 - Service Solutions: The ‘CKP’ Script - Underhood Service
March 4, 2015 - The Right Diagnostic Tools Save You From Extensive Disassembly Time - TechShop
February 22, 2016 - Using the CSS Script for Unconventional Diagnostic Methods - TechShop
March 1, 2017 - Maximizing Tools: Using Software to Aid in Engine Mechanical and Electronic Failure Diagnosis - TechShop

Leading automotive forums should refrain from discussing the use of pirated software taken from us and used in other devices.

Andrew Shulgin's explanation

Unfortunately, due to the pirating of our software, further improvement of scripts and the development of new ones will be available only through our server: waveform-analyzer.com/

This means that further hacking of our software will be very difficult to do.

On the other hand, we are willing and ready to partake in mutually beneficial cooperation.

It's disappointing to hear it is pirated.

But with so little information out there, it is hard to know. I would have liked to buy the USB Autoscope, but it just seemed so difficult to actually purchase, with no easy online sellers.
Added to that the risks involved transfering funds in the manner they wish.....the likes of these cheaper options just seemed to have less risk involved.

But which aspect is pirated ? MTPro ? Rotkee ? Diamag ? Or is it just the aspects relating to Andrey's scripts ?

I actually registered on the UJSB Autoscope forum some time ago, but even after weeks, the registration email confirmation never came through. And I did email admin a few times to try and get it resolved.
Although I did re-try a couple of weeks ago, and it did work this time.

You do have a good product, and it could sell much better if there was more information out there, and easier more trusted routes of purchase in the "western" world so to speak.

Yes, you are sure.
Diagmag, MTpro and others use copies of Shulgin's scripts.

The whole "piracy" claim seems weird since Injector Service and Rotkee both appear to be based in Ukraine. Seems like something could be done about it since they're in the same country...............

stevieturbo wrote: You do have a good product, and it could sell much better if there was more information out there, and easier more trusted routes of purchase in the "western" world so to speak.

I wonder if they're both avoiding ATS. Bernie Thompson has a lot of patents.

All 3 companies mentioned are based in Ukraine.

But I'm assuming the piracy part relates to the software regarding the scripts that perform various tests and give the user lots of data without them needing to do very much.

And to be fair, it is one of the reasons I steered towards these products. Although I also want the LAN aspect of the Rotkee so I can hopefully go wireless via WiFi and avoid the need for USB stuff.

What's the ATS ?

stevieturbo wrote: What's the ATS ?

www.automotivetestsolutions.com/escope-elite8-no-tablet

Are you suggesting ATS also copied Vlad/Shulgin's scripts ?

Their EScope is like 4-5x the price of the USB Autoscope which has been around for many years.

And Berni showing (it) off
www.youtube.com/channel/UCoexuFHwO3oZBTzAR14xiSA

.. And if you have to ask - you can't afford it !

stevieturbo wrote: Are you suggesting ATS also copied Vlad/Shulgin's scripts ?

I mentioned ATS because their 'scope software has some similar features to the Ukrainian softwares and they have a bunch of patents. Seems really strange that none of the Ukrainian players are actively going after "Western" markets. They look like great products which would sell really well if there was a less sketchy way to order them. Has to be something keeping them away from a very lucrative market and I doubt it's that they don't like money.

And I'm not convinced anybody is illegally using Shulgins scripts. What Shulgin said in a video which was posted today doesn't tell us anything about the terms, or lack thereof, these scripts were originally released under. If Shulgins scripts really are exclusively licensed to Injector Service why haven't they lawyered up in Ukraine and shut down their competitors?

stevieturbo wrote: Their EScope is like 4-5x the price of the USB Autoscope which has been around for many years.

ATS have also been around for a while. Prolly since the '90's judging by their software :lol: :silly:

This page gives a timeline on Injector Service and Shulgins user generated scripts.

autoscope.eu/about-us/

Any idea what the patents are ?

It would be hard to imagine there is much to patent, when in some form or other, most diagnostic stuff relating to crank speed/accel etc has already been done whether in aftermarket or within the OEM

Got my bits today (no admin charge thankfully) cable is nice and soft, in cylinder hose is well made. Like the sprung retractable cover on the bannana plugs so they work as both insulated and not insulated.

Guys,
Thanx for all this very informative input.
Thanx also for the links to further info.
I looked at the ATS before, but like you say, it's too expensive.
My main concern is learning how to read the graphs, esp. the stacked graphs.
Does anybody know of any educational stuff on that that I can use at my own snail's pace?
Here's an example of one little piece of a larger educational series:

Thanx...

A post just now from Instagram.

"rotkee Unfortunately, our suppliers failed to deliver the key components in time. As a result, we have to stop manufacturing our produce until further notice.
We are currently in search of new suppliers and alternatives for understocked components. This is the reason we don’t have time to answer all the questions we receive via email and messengers. All paid orders are to be delivered by 20 March. As for pending orders, we’ll first check if all the items are available at the warehouse and then let you know about the tentative delivery date.
We apologize for any inconvenience caused."

I guess no need for concern, mine arrived today. All good.

Connected up via LAN to home PC, and have run a couple of waveforms through it from my simulator.
Can clearly see 36-1 hall trigger at 9000rpm, 720 timing markers with compression/firing cycles already marked up etc.

I guess it'll take a while to figure more out. Haven't tried to connect via WiFi yet via a router though to see if that will work ok. Would need the laptop to test that

Pics please !!

This is a test of crank cam from a simulator...I had thought initially it was 9000rpm, but it's actually 16,000rpm. So still a good clean waveform at that, 36-1 with a single tooth cam.

And the selection of stuff. Have to say the quality seems very good, even the moulded rubber parts of some connectors have Rotkee embdedded in them. A more distinct +/- marking at those specific banana sockets would be nice, but it is printed. A dab of paint will sort it though.

But as others said, the shielded banana plugs are nice, and in general quality seems good, especially considering the low cost.

Must admit...the connectors I ordered with a single BNC, but either 3 or 4 terminals ( like this pictured with two pairs ), haven't a clue what they're for. I guess they're just splitting for measurement of two things at same plug, that occur at different times. Either way, quality of them is good.

Wow you did buy the full kit ! Thanks for the pics.
The software looks very clean, interested to hear what you think after a bit of use.

I certainly didn't buy the full...but did buy a selection from what they had in stock.

I already have some other parts anyway. So far no joy with the wireless aspect though.

All in less than £500...doesnt seem bad at all when even the cheaper EU/US/UK stuff want that for the scope alone.

No eBay APP ID and/or Cert ID defined in Kunena configurationSo far, have tested it on a few things ( no cars though ), just messing about. Software doesn't seem too bad really.

I did buy a large cheap current clamp off ebay and as I didn't have anything high current handy in the garage...decided to try measuring me TIG welding lol.
I have a little Hantek clamp, but it's the small jaw version. So I bought this. At only £29 seemed rude not to. It feels pretty good quality, albeit with banana plugs, no BNC. No big deal though

Seems the forum doesn't like ebay links....but it was ISO-TECH ICA39T 1000A AC/DC CURRENT TRANSDUCER.

?

However, the MTPro wasnt happy and threw errors every time I struck an arc to weld. Don't know why, will send the error message to Rotkee and ask.

I tried scoping current and voltage of a little battery tester that performs a discharge test on small 6/12v batteries as I wanted to see what it was doing.
In the time of around 60ms it performs multiple load tests on the battery ( this one was deemed flat though, small 12v 7Ah battery ) even though no load it registers 12.38v

I did try scoping the live cable of a heat gun as an ac current test. That didn't seem to perform ok, with it fluctuating around -16A under load, and even with the power turned off at the plug, it still seemed to cycle around 50hz so clamp must be picking up something.
Not sure how to zero it....must read instructions I guess

I bought the little pulse sensor thingy for the likes of diesel pipes, so will hopefully get to try that in a couple of weeks on some old generators in work to see if it actually gives a usable signal of an injector firing etc.