Rotkee vs. Pico

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22 Feb 2021 19:12 #46982 by Wightscope
Replied by Wightscope on topic Rotkee vs. Pico
The European "no import VAT/handling fee" limit is 22 Eur, bill was 21.5 - win ! ... Then I remembered that we ain't in Europe any more and it's £15 or 18 eur ...booo.
Yep you will have import tax, handling and VAT on top of the lot. Still a lot less than anything else on the market. Will be really interested in it's capabilities.

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24 Feb 2021 17:24 #47020 by stevieturbo
Replied by stevieturbo on topic Rotkee vs. Pico
Got an email back from him....seems as you said, a transfer in USD would not work for him. So I had to cancel the first transaction, and re-send so he would receive Euros.

He really does not make it easy ! If he had a more simple approach to selling, I'm sure he could sell a lot of these

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26 Feb 2021 09:22 #47058 by cadman777
Replied by cadman777 on topic Rotkee vs. Pico
Can you tell me if the Rotkee MT software has scripts like in this video?

(around 13:20 & 17:57 minutes)
I still need to learn how accurately to read these graphs!
Got any good YouTube videos that show how to do that?
Thanx...

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26 Feb 2021 13:50 #47065 by stevieturbo
Replied by stevieturbo on topic Rotkee vs. Pico
I believe it does, yes.

Whether they're as easily accessible, not so sure. USB Autoscope seems to be the creator of those features, along with Andrey Shulgin.

Diamag and MTPro are allegedly copies. Who knows really.

They'd be nice user friendly features to have on all Scopes....and I have suggested them to Pico too. Yes they will not be perfect, they will not cover everything, but they'd be a helpful quick glance test.
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26 Feb 2021 13:54 #47066 by stevieturbo
Replied by stevieturbo on topic Rotkee vs. Pico
This channel covers the USB Autoscope and the scripts well

www.youtube.com/c/AutoscopeTechnology/videos

Rotkee does have their own channel, albeit in Russian or Ukranian.

www.youtube.com/channel/UCoudpgrzjlNmNhstftmjbRg/videos

Anyways...my order has been confirmed, transaction complete. So hopefully I've some parts on the way soon !
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26 Feb 2021 15:00 #47068 by cadman777
Replied by cadman777 on topic Rotkee vs. Pico
Can't wait to see what you think!
What stuff did you get?
I really want it, b/c this 2 channel is kicking my butt!
Can't do ANYTHING with it!
Keep us posted...

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26 Feb 2021 15:17 #47069 by stevieturbo
Replied by stevieturbo on topic Rotkee vs. Pico
I basically ordered one or two of most of the stuff he had in stock.

I figured why not, it's all fairly cheap, so may as well do it in one postage. Even if things don't work out, the accessories should work with any scope anyway.

I already have a Ditex pulse sensor and Hantek clamp along with various other bits n bobs. Just the old scope I had is pretty useless and never really worked since I changed laptops.

I'll be trying this MTPro with a wireless router for wireless connectivity, although in 5G mode that would see a max of around 500Mbps...whether that will be a problem or not I don't know. But it's easy to run a LAN cable too. I would just like it to be wireless.

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27 Feb 2021 19:25 - 27 Feb 2021 19:33 #47089 by cadman777
Replied by cadman777 on topic Rotkee vs. Pico
I just made my own 'pulse sensor' (differential pressure sensor).
Used it yesterday on both Exhaust Gasses and Manifold Vacuum.
The signals looks excellent based on what I've seen others get from expensive pressure transducers.
Granted, it's not a pressure measurement, but it's a signal that can certainly be used to diagnose.
After making this probe and a simple COP probe, I'm inclined to make all my own pickup devices, unless it's impossible or inconvenient or ROI ineffective.

The cost of this recent sensor was about $8US.
The money went to three PVC pipe fittings @ 1-1/2" nominal and a NTPM barbed nipple (from HomeDespot) and a BNC/BananaClip cable (from fleaBay).
The rest of the stuff I had (glue & hose).
I got my idea off YT from 'the forklift mechanic'.
Only thing I did wrong was connect the wires backwards (black/black & red/red).
Should've checked the signal before soldering and shrink-wrapping.
Too late to re-do!

Currently I'm looking at the USB scope vs the Rotkee.
Not sure the differences.
Maybe the software is what sets them apart?
All I care about is being able to 'hook-up', get signals, and process the signals in an interpreter so I can analyze them for ANYTHING and EVERYTHING that may be wrong with the engine or controls system.

I want a ONE SIZE FITS ALL approach to ANY vehicle.
The Ruskies seem to have figured it out.
Too bad Americans have failed to.
Just goes to show how 'evil commerce' in America has locked-down control over everybody's freedom to innovate!
KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
Last edit: 27 Feb 2021 19:33 by cadman777.

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28 Feb 2021 06:21 #47098 by stevieturbo
Replied by stevieturbo on topic Rotkee vs. Pico
I think the USB does have slightly better resolution, and the software does look a little easier....perhaps more from an English point of view.
And there are a lot more help videos on Youtube.

USB also seems to use XLR fittings, so they are dedicated to that unit, but as such seem to easily be able to derive power from the unit as needed instead of needing separate power.

But for the likes of CAN work...I do not believe either of these have adequate bandwidth for good diagnosis, nor do they decode the data.

But for basic stuff...seems all good. Hopefully for a learning platform they'll be all good.

It's just a pity neither of them have easier routes of purchase
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28 Feb 2021 12:57 - 01 Mar 2021 11:34 #47120 by cadman777
Replied by cadman777 on topic Rotkee vs. Pico
Good to know.

XLR fittings are on my ancient DRB II.
I like them b/c they're substantial.
But all of my current scope fittings are BNC.
So that makes my existing inputs useless to a USB scope.
But it's like you say, there's Pros/Cons for either scope.

Began watching some of the 'dubbed' videos.
Very good job so far.
But I'm waiting to see if I learn something new.
Too bad nobody's done a comparison between the USB & Rotkee scopes.
If I was an 'expert', I'd do it myself!
Last edit: 01 Mar 2021 11:34 by cadman777.

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28 Feb 2021 13:20 #47121 by stevieturbo
Replied by stevieturbo on topic Rotkee vs. Pico
As said, reading some forums, some seem to imply the Diamag and Rotkee/MTPro are copies of the USB and there were some questions raised as to the use of Andrey Shulgins scripts.

But they do seem to be available on all platforms.

It wouldn't be too hard to knock up a few leads from XLR to BNC anyway if you did go down that route.
On a price point, Rotkee is very good, even if it is not fantastic spec. As said, I like the LAN aspect....which also means easy WiFi connectivity hopefully.

Plus it seems to say all inputs are +/- 300v....which means rarely would an attenuator be needed. Maybe a moot point...maybe a downside ? who knows.

Looking forward to it anyway. Also just got a little signal generator/simulator for various crank/cam triggers and a few 0-5v analogue. I'll use it to make up a little test box to play with the scope. ( truth be told... already broke it by setting the PCB down onto a bit of metal...but should be an easy fix as it's arduino based lol )

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01 Mar 2021 11:38 - 01 Mar 2021 11:39 #47133 by cadman777
Replied by cadman777 on topic Rotkee vs. Pico
Yes, it's no big deal going XLR to BNC, but I want as few connections as possible in the lines.

I've got a BK Precision signal generator I can use to actuate 'things', but not too sure how to use it yet on the vehicle. I read somewhere the older PicoScopes had a signal generator to give you bi-directional control over the vehicle's actuators. But like I said, I don't know when or how to use it in conjunction w/the scope.

Huge learning curve for an old time mechanical guy like me!
Last edit: 01 Mar 2021 11:39 by cadman777.

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01 Mar 2021 12:39 #47135 by stevieturbo
Replied by stevieturbo on topic Rotkee vs. Pico
A device that actuates things, is not necessarily a signal generator. It could be a simple off/on switch. Which isn't quite the same thing.

And any build in signal generators from a scope, would never provide enough current for any actuators, unless the power supply for the actuator was independent from a control circuit.

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02 Mar 2021 10:18 #47162 by cadman777
Replied by cadman777 on topic Rotkee vs. Pico
What I'm looking for is a way to control the devices in the electronic circuit using a simple computer with interface.
I realize I can spend a few 1000 on a Snapon scanner (money I don't have to spend) and get that, for the most part.
I also realize I can 'subscribe' to the OEM provider and get that functionality for a fee (about 1500 bux for each make's VCI - more coins not in my pocket).
So, I was figuring there's gotta be a simpler and cheaper way to operate the controls from a computer using something else.
For example: when you want to do an injector balance test, or when you want to range an IAC, or when you want to turn off a COP, or something like that.
That's what I was wondering if I could use my BK Precision signal generator to do.
But even if I knew how to do that, I wouldn't know how to do it with the engine running and in conjunction with the functions of the ECU/PCM or any other system.
See what I mean?

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02 Mar 2021 13:38 #47167 by stevieturbo
Replied by stevieturbo on topic Rotkee vs. Pico

What I'm looking for is a way to control the devices in the electronic circuit using a simple computer with interface.
I realize I can spend a few 1000 on a Snapon scanner (money I don't have to spend) and get that, for the most part.
I also realize I can 'subscribe' to the OEM provider and get that functionality for a fee (about 1500 bux for each make's VCI - more coins not in my pocket).
So, I was figuring there's gotta be a simpler and cheaper way to operate the controls from a computer using something else.
For example: when you want to do an injector balance test, or when you want to range an IAC, or when you want to turn off a COP, or something like that.
That's what I was wondering if I could use my BK Precision signal generator to do.
But even if I knew how to do that, I wouldn't know how to do it with the engine running and in conjunction with the functions of the ECU/PCM or any other system.
See what I mean?


Yea, some OEM ecu's with the correct tool, will allow you to activate various devices....but a lot will not. Aftermarket scan tools....again, some will some wont. Very few if any allow the user full control over every single actuator though for testing.

Of course the other option to actuate such items...is run the engine. At least then, the correct ecu, will be operating them as that manufatcurer intended.

Or to feed the ecu a simulated crank/cam trigger so it does operate all devices as normal...just without the engine running. Taking precautions about filling the engine with fuel via the injectors of course.
But that doesn't allow you to operate one item at a time as such.

But there are crank/cam simulators out there, and I've one sitting here on my bench right now made from an arduino nano, which itself is designed for people to test their "speeduino" engine control unit, which is a basic ecu made from an arduino.
You feed it a crank signal, and then you can monitor it's behaviours and check various outputs are operating. And in that case, you could hook it up to injectors, coils etc if you wanted.



There are a lot of novel things that go on in separate worlds...more of them should combine as it could be mutually beneficial.
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02 Mar 2021 16:31 #47172 by cadman777
Replied by cadman777 on topic Rotkee vs. Pico
That SPEEDUINO looks interesting!
It just may be an answer to some other things I've been thinking about.

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02 Mar 2021 17:39 - 02 Mar 2021 17:46 #47173 by stevieturbo
Replied by stevieturbo on topic Rotkee vs. Pico
Speeduino itself is a DIY project....and ultimately is a full engine control ecu.

the Ardustim I mentioned is another project to aid testing of the speeduino, which is code that uses a nano to create crank/cam patterns.
I actually got mine working there tonight, although first test generates a square wave signal ok. Not sure if it is able to generate a simulated VR signal though.
Last edit: 02 Mar 2021 17:46 by stevieturbo.

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