No crank

Andy.MacFadyen wrote: "When I touched the positive terminal on the battery it was getting pretty warm."

Also 0.57v is too much betweem the engine block and battery negative is too much, you have a bad engine ground.
All the main connections to the battery need removed and cleaned and the main earth cable needs checked and the connections cleaned at the engine block, body and battery .

OK thank you! I shall do this as soon as I get home, will I just get a bit of sand paper and sand it till it is shinny metal again?

So I have cleaned all the ground connections I could find, also cleaned all the connections to the battery and the clicking went back to how it was before. A rapid clicking from a relay in the fuse box when key is turned to the run position as I have said before if I remove the fuse for the "engine control unit and fan assembly control relay supply, water in diesel sensor, EGR solenoid valves, air heating" the relay stops clicking but still no crank when key is turned. Could this be an ecu problem maybe not sending a ground signal to the fusebox or something along those lines?

What is the voltage measured at the battery when you try to operate the starter ?

Andy.MacFadyen wrote: What is the voltage measured at the battery when you try to operate the starter ?

The voltage stays the same when key is turned to start. About 12.8v

Could this possible be an ecu problem? Not sending a good ground to the main relay? Because when I take one off the connector off the ecu the relay stops clicking?

Mark, where are you in the UK?
maybe you're near to one of us
Cheers

I live in Scotland, ayrshire

Too far for me to travel, is the wiring diagram I posted earlier correct for your vehicle?
I have access to Servicebox, Autodata, Carweb etc if it's not. (PM me your reg and VIN and I can get specific for your car)
Really wish I could walk you through this in person.
Cheers.

I have bought a diagram from haynes and the diagram I have for the car is pretty similar to the one you managed to find. I shall pm you my reg number and VIN and get your email address so I can send you the diagram I have.
That would have been great if you could as I have been trying to get my car fixed for over a month now, and had a few people out to have a look and they aren't sure what it is

Mark, looking at the attached wiring diagram specific to your car I would do the following hard reset:

open your drivers window, remove your key and let the car go to sleep - do not press any key remotes (5 mins)
disconnect the battery and leave disconnected with the +ve and -ve leads joined together for 5 mins.
reconnect battery
lean through window (do not open door) and turn on sidelights
place key in ignition and turn to run position.
turn off key and sidelights

Hard reset complete

try and start car - if NG then do the following:-

Pull out F8 (15A or 20A) which should be bottom right on your engine bay fuse box - check for obvious signs of water damage or shiny spots on the fuse legs. If good then refit fuse and check for voltage - it should be HOT ALL TIMES T30

measure Battery voltage when cranking - meter connected across battery - should not drop below 10v

measure from engine block to battery -ve post when cranking - should not be more than 0.5v lower is better

back probe pin 2 on the 5 pin green connector on your engine fuse box (strip the insulation tape off the loom until you find the wire number printed on the wire, it should be wire 100)- there should be <0.1v on this wire KOEO with your meter -ve on battery -ve

crank the engine and note the voltage on pin 2 - it should be battery voltage when cranking

As a plausibility check you can disconnect the connector and give the wire (100) 12v from a fused jumper wire - the starter should crank every time - if it does not then we have other issues besides what is happening at the fuse box.

This thread is getting too long to remember all the checks you have done. By pulling other fuses you may be introducing other faults and variables.

Hope this helps

Thank you for your help it is much appreciated!

So I have done the reset and it hasn't changed anything
Found fuse 8 and it is always hot (12.7v ) I then removed the fuse and the legs of the fuse just had some scrape marks on them from where it fits in the fusebox, and no sign of any corrosion or water damage where the fuse is placed.

The voltage across the battery does not change when the key is turned to start, stays at 12.7v? Does the is mean the starter isn't drawing any power?

The voltage between the battery - and block ground was a bit high, was 0.8v but I removed all the grounds and cleaned them and now it is round about 0.02v but still rapid clicking relay and no crank.

Found wire 100 and back probed it and tried starting and it was getting 0v

Done this and the engine was cranking really slow, there was also a sizzling sound coming from the battery positive terminal which then went pretty warm when I had stopped.

I have looked at the diagram and seen that wire CM13 comes from the ignition switch and should get voltage when key is turned to start. I connected my meter to battery negative and back probed the wire on the connecter and there wasn't any voltage at all.

Another thing that is happening is soon as I turn any lights on everything dies in the car for example when I just flash the full beam for a second there are a few relays click under the dash fuse box all lights go off, then they all come back on.

Are you sure your battery terminals are clean, dry, undamaged and tight? Fizzing warm battery posts are not a good sign.
Is your battery in good condition - repeated boost starts and bad connections may have resulted in a dead short inside your battery.
Did you check the earth connection from the battery -ve to body?
Check the main earth cable very carefully and do a volt drop test on it.
Check the earth points (green yellow wires) behind the L/H headlamp on the chassis - one point on top of the chassis leg and one point on the side of the chassis leg.
According to my diagram wire 1025 is the T50 or start circuit from the ignition switch not CM13
You can back probe this on pin 9 of the grey 28 pin connector on the engine bay fuse box.

Just had a thought -
The only time I've seen battery posts "fizzing" is when folk have mistakenly coated their battery posts in grease, petroleum jelly or anti-seize (copaslip)in a misguided attempt to protect the terminals from buildup of deposits and then connected the battery leads.
Cheers

The connecter itself doesn't look too clean, it's not really bad but I shall pick up a battery terminals cleaner tool tomorrow and a new connector just to be sure I am getting a good connection. The battery that I am using is only a few months old (had to get a new one after I got the new fusebox)


Ah ok I see now my bad sorry! The way the connectors are it is nearly impossible to back probe this wire to see if it is getting the voltage, I will try again tomorrow and see if I have any luck.

I removed all the ground cables, cleaned them up and made sure they were all tight and couldn't move and no change.

I have also heard of this happening to battery terminals with stuff on them but I haven't put any on myself.

What possible reasons do you think is causing this that I can check?



.

Mark, the connectors are pretty standard, if you look carefully there will be a cover you can remove with care to gain access and backprobe.
This is the reality of auto electrics these days, it's nearly always the basics that are overlooked or tested incorrectly and rarely a "module"
There's no "silver bullet" for this problem - logical test methods will find the fault.
With the wiring diagrams you have, Paul's videos on his channels, a voltmeter and time you have everything you need to fix your car.
I am still of the opinion you have 1 or more of the following issues:
Bad battery connection / leads
Bad engine, body or module grounds
A short, open or corrosion in a loom or connector.
Cheers

I have been trying get this cover off without breaking it, I doesn't seem to slide off or pull off? I have had to stop trying now as it has started raining quite heavy

I have cleaned the battery connectors up they don't have any dirt etc on them anymore and the battery post is clean of dirt aswell but still no change.

With the connector off I looked at the pin on the fuse box which activates the starter relay (pin 6/ wire 1025) and put a 12v feed on this pin and the engine started cranking. Could there maybe be a short on this wire?
The next time I get out to the car I will check to see if the wire gets voltage between the under dash fusebox and the underhood fusebox.

Another quick question, if I remove fuse 1 the buzzing stops and also when i i disconnect a connector in the ecu could this be a bad ground with one of the components that this fuse is linked to?

I have read through your postings and I can't help but dwell on your statement about the sizzling battery cable. This is very certainly a bad connection. Try checking your battery voltage at the fuse box or starter connections to be sure they are getting steady voltage. I have seen a lot of positive cables get glazed inside and only allow for clicking relays. Scrape the inside of the battery cable connections to be certain they are on clean metal. Keep plugging away at this, It will eventually show itself.

Sizziling at the battery post is usually a sign of the battery is leaking where the post comes through the case material.
More general gassing or fizzing is always down to a shorted

Agreed if it's over charging or dead shorted. It's not running or being charged so it shouldn't be the over charge side of it. He is also seeing steady battery voltage at the battery so it doesn't sound like it shorted or it should be going dead. I was referring to an arcing sizzle.

I was meant to be picking up some new battery connectors but it slipped my mind, I shall get them as soon as possible and change them over see if that makes any difference. this sizzling sound only happens when I put a load on something like the starter (jumping the ignition wire) or even flash full beam.
The fuse box main wire is getting the 12.7v and so is the starter control fuse. just a relay clicking really fast as soon as the ignition is switched on. it is worrying me that the ignition pin is getting 11.5v with just the ignition on, when it should only be getting this voltage when key is turned to start, any ideas on how this could be happening?
does anyone know where the ecu is grounded? it is just as soon as I take one of the connectors off it the buzzing stops?