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Ford Explorer 2014 No crank

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2 years 8 months ago #50879 by Isaacs_motoring
Above is a screenshot of the starting system diagram of a Ford explorer 2014, trying to understand how the engine computer controls the relay... The both wires from the pcm, not sure which is a ground and which is a power (as the control of a relay needs a power and ground) or both are powers (where in the pcm grounds one) or both ground and then pcm energizes one. Help me make sense of this my good teacher.

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2 years 8 months ago #50882 by Hardtopdr2
No picture came with post might need to reload it and or possibly resize it if it's a jpg file

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2 years 8 months ago #50887 by ScannerDanner
What the OP sent me via messenger.  

Don't be a parts changer!

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2 years 8 months ago #50888 by ScannerDanner
My reply to him:
Hard to say as the diagram doesn't tell us everything.
You'll need a good description and operation or a test light to figure it out with the relay removed. I'm thinking the green is power when cranking and the yellow is ground, but I could be wrong.
Post this to my forum www.scannerdanner.com it's free to join and we can help there. Can't really offer this here on messenger my friend. Too many people asking for help to answer everyone

Don't be a parts changer!
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2 years 8 months ago #50889 by ScannerDanner
Isaac,
Pull the relay and connect a test light to ground and touch it on pins 1 and then 2 individually while cranking, then connect the test light to battery positive and do the same test, this will answer your questions for sure. At least on a working circuit.

Don't be a parts changer!

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2 years 8 months ago #50895 by Isaacs_motoring
Thanks... Danner already supplied the picture, guess I need it resized.

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2 years 8 months ago #50896 by Isaacs_motoring
Thanks... I don't need to worry about the computer shutting down the circuit as a result of the relay taking out? If I do, I suppose I could put a voltmeter and see the momentary spike as I cycle the key on, off, and crank before the computer shuts it down, right?

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2 years 8 months ago #50897 by Hardtopdr2
No as that circuit is only active in the crank position only
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2 years 8 months ago #50898 by ScannerDanner

Thanks... I don't need to worry about the computer shutting down the circuit as a result of the relay taking out? If I do, I suppose I could put a voltmeter and see the momentary spike as I cycle the key on, off, and crank before the computer shuts it down, right?
Great question! Someone has been paying attention. Love it! This is something you always have to ask yourself when a driver doesn't function as designed. The timing of when you install the test light and then also clearing codes and keeping an eye on current codes, are all things you should ALWAYS consider. You are on it my friend. In the case of a relay, I'm not sure that I've seen a lockout occur like we see on other outputs, but you never know. 
Now to the case in hand. I'm assuming you have a no crank issue that you are trying to narrow down? Are there any anti-theft codes? Do you have the ability to look at data PIDs like gear position etc.? 
BTW you can use your test light for the test you just described with the voltmeter. Install your test light as a jumper between those two pins and crank it. Just please, be SUPER careful that these two pins do NOT touch each other with whatever adapters you are going to use. 

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2 years 8 months ago #50899 by Isaacs_motoring
No anti theft codes... I installed a jumper wire in between the load side terminals and it cranked and ran. What I really think I'm missing is the ignition feed which I think is supplied by the pcm. That was why I asked the question about the diagram to begin with. Using a test light I found a feed which is hot all the time, finding the second feed (as a relay needs two powers to work) was the issue, both with ignition on and off.

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2 years 8 months ago #50900 by Hardtopdr2
To correct my earlier statement I have run into a case where the starter was inhibited for a short period after a no start to prevent starter grinding but it was a Honda push button ignition
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2 years 8 months ago #50901 by ScannerDanner

No anti theft codes... I installed a jumper wire in between the load side terminals and it cranked and ran. What I really think I'm missing is the ignition feed which I think is supplied by the pcm. That was why I asked the question about the diagram to begin with. Using a test light I found a feed which is hot all the time, finding the second feed (as a relay needs two powers to work) was the issue, both with ignition on and off.
Time to start looking at all the inputs my friend

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2 years 8 months ago #50902 by Isaacs_motoring
Inputs you mean thinks like gear selector position right? What else?

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2 years 8 months ago #50905 by Hardtopdr2
One thing to be sure on is did you check the feeds when having the key in crank position? If not recheck.

If you did check in crank position then you will need to look at the Gear selector position data, transmission range sensor data, ignition position data, wiring diagrams for the starting and charging circuit, ignition switch, pcm, TCM, gem module for where the starter command and disable is sent to pcm and confirm if it's getting a start signal, also test relay(ohm test both circuit sides of relay) to see if it is bad or swap a good one from another spot in fuse box in its place and see if it works. Sometimes it's the simplest problem that we miss a step and go down a rabbit hole.
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2 years 8 months ago #50910 by Isaacs_motoring
Swapped relays, that check out, would focus more on the inputs, however on the cluster it indicates to being in park, although when you flick it to neutral it does not illuminate, perhaps a burned out bulb. Would go through all the checks again and give a feedback.

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2 years 8 months ago #51021 by Isaacs_motoring
Confirmed no anti theft codes, live data list, there is a pid for crank active and inactive, this says active when in crank position, also transmission range selector reports to be in park. All inputs check out. While in crank position, the yellow wire from pcm is a ground, the green and white is meant to be the power which is missing. Thinking of tracing the green wire up to the pcm

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2 years 8 months ago #51042 by Isaacs_motoring
Can anyone help me with the pcm pin out for the Ford explorer 2014. Need to know which connector is the c175b so I can trace the green and white wire up there and do powers and ground checks.

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2 years 8 months ago #51043 by jreardon
which one?

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2 years 8 months ago #51048 by Isaacs_motoring
This is the Vin 1FM5K8D82FGA99236

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2 years 8 months ago #51049 by jreardon
It's one of the two big connectors, where pin 1 and 2 are empty. That's the best I can do, sorry. I only got identifix a few days ago so still navigating.

B is body, E is Engine and T is transmission i think. So B, E and T. Crossing fingers, and b.e.t. ting this order is correct.

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