Wiring Diagram Peugeot 4007

Hi all

im hoping someone might be able to help.  I have the above vehicle, runs fine for about half a mile from cold then once slightly warm the revs start to hunt, even when driving.  If I let of the gas you’d think the car just turned into a kangaroo and until I kept the car over 2000-2500rpm it is undrivable, if I dip the clutch it stalls.  Even at idle the revs hunt and ultimately stalls.

i have the following DTC’s
P0487
P2111

does anyone have a wiring diagram for the throttle body/EGR/MAP/MAF or even just the colours of the wiring at the connectors so I can do some checks etc.

Thanks

Derek

So, I’ve had the Throttle body off and cleaned it, the butterfly operates fine, I have also removed the EGR and cleaned that too, before refitting I plugged it in to the car and used the Verus Pro to run a functional test and the valve opens and closes during the test.

Put it all back together, car idles fine until the temp increases, it was idling fine for maybe 10 mins, then revs start to hunt and ultimately stalls!!

Even though the codes reference the EGR I’m not convinced as the EGR does not operate at idle, only when cruising/driving. Could it be MAF or MAP, I’d have thought if it was it would be the same from cold start up and not only once temp starts to increase.

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Derek

Derek,

what year is this 4007 and which engine does it feature? Does it start to fail the moment it enters closed loop? Does it even enter closed loop?
More data will be helpful.....

It’s a 2011, 2.2 litre HDi, Judging by the time it takes to start happening I would say yes, it’s when it enters closed loop, I’ve not checked live data. I can’t say i've seen that option when searching the live data lists, this car gives very little options regarding functional tests and data unfortunately.

I did take some live data and saved it, see attahced, look at the back end when this was happening during a drive.

Regards

Derek

Is the engine code DW 12 MTED? If so, it should feature a BOSCH EDC 16CP39 computer. You can find the corresponding engine management diagrams for this engine in the VIVID (Stahlgruber) database. It does not appear under 4007 but the 407 is listed with the same engine code. There ar are three different variants, dependig on the car line, basicly variations of the BSI. Do you have an RPO code?

With regards to the scan data: I´d try to use generic OBD2, if you do not have peugeot planet/lexia. The verus is not the go to scanner for this kind of car.
Example: there is a pid called metering throttle position Copy. This shows quite some variations and if it really refers to the throttle position as the pid name suggests I think it is useless as the throttle plate on these engines usually stays wide open unless the edu wants some vacuum to provoke (better) egr flow or wants to shut off the engine quickly to avoid runaway.

You also may want to look into this thread:
www.peugeotforums.com/threads/money-light-p2111-p0488.312513/
 

It is the DW 12 MTED with a BOSCH EDC 16CP39

i believe the RPO is: 12602

I do have Planet, however last time I tried IT said ECU not identified or ECU Unknown, I cant remember exactly. I also have a friend with Diagbox which might prove more successful.

I'll look over the thread in that link. Thanks for your help so far.

I was considering getting the EGR and DPF mapped out to try and solve it but your comment regarding Closed Loop has made me consider that it could potentialy not be related to either of those, I may be wrong.

Thanks again, I'll report back after trying with Diagbox.

Which PID's should I specifically be looking at other than O2?

I took some data using the Verus again today of the O2 PIDs. I tried with PP but my laptop battery only last a short time and I didnt have a PSU, didnt want to risk the laptop shutting down in the middle of things and possibly causing futher issues.

The only PIDs I have are:

Engine Speed
Correction Activation Status Linked to O2 Sensor M....
O2 Sensor Voltage
Richness Calculated From O2 Sensor

Take a look at the Scanner data attached running smooth from cold until car warms up and revs start hunting at 1340 frames, car stalls almost immediately.  I start it back up and give it a few revs then leave to idle, I hit the save button and the second after that it stalls again.

The only PID that changes is the Engine Speed, nothing from anything else.  car idled for approx 15-18 mins before this started

 

These PIDS do not contribute much at all to diagnose the issue. Nontheless, the O2 staying at 0 all the time looks weird. Because of the time you say it takes the fault to ocurre I do not believe that it is related to close loop.

the 15-18 duration was at idle the entire time, when driving to reduces to maybe 2-4 minutes.

I'm not even sure how the O2 works on a diesel, the fact it stays at 0 (Zero) is strange but could this be normal on a diesel engine, I know Fords have a 0 voltage on their petrol/gas cars at the O2

I wish I could find some reference values for the EGR and/or the throttle body so I can maybe back probe and compare values.

Paul makes it look Ssooooo easy haha

Just for reference, I get the following code first but no Engine light on dash:

P2111 - EGR Throttle Position Copy Signal. Throttle Blocked During Post Operation

Once the Revs start to hunt I get the Dash Light and the following:

P0487 - EGR Throttle Position Copy Signal. Opening too small

 

The picture shows the EGR circuits and some tests, hth.   

Wow, this is super helpful, I will get those test/checks ran over the next few days. Forgive my ignorance but can you clarify what you mean by EDU, I am not sure what this translates to or where it is unless you mean the ECU, if you meant the ECU I would expect to see more detailed diagram.

Thanks again for this and I will report back

Derek

EDU often is the name for Electronic Diesel Unit, it's the equivalent to an ECM on gasoline equipped engines.....

This is the EGR section of the EDU/ECM diagram. The whole diagram is broken into different sub-systems, I do not have an entire diagram with all the components in one drawing. Each component comes seperately.

I've not had a chance to take another look at this due to some family/child care issues arising this weekend.

I have however managed to find a little more/additional information from AutoData, see attachment.

I'm assuming that it everything matches the values in the documentation then we can safely say the EGR is bad?

 

P2111 - EGR Throttle Position Copy Signal. Throttle Blocked During Post Operation

Once the Revs start to hunt I get the Dash Light and the following:

P0487 - EGR Throttle Position Copy Signal. Opening too small
 

Taking a guess I would take that to mean that the feedback on the throttle position does not match the expected position based on what the ECU commands. I am assuming that is direct feedback and not based on MAF reading (though it could be). Not sure if the scan tool operation would be looking at the position feedback for its test sweep

Can you try running it with the throttle disconnected.
 

So could this be a Throttle body issue rather than EGR? I know these vehicles do tend to suffer from the Cogs that turn the throttle flap/butterfly sometimes strip as they are only made from plastic.

I'm going to have a look this evening at the reference voltages and I'll try running it with the throttle unplugged.

Still not sure why it only starts happening once the engine is up warmed up slightly
 

Yes, this can be a throttle body issue.

Still not sure why it only starts happening once the engine is up warmed up slightly

I would think because no EGR action below a certain coolant temperature. The whole point of EGR is to cool the combustion gasses to minimise formation of NOX gases, so if the engine is cold no EGR therefore no throttle. Also EGR action is usually limited at idle.

Well, I've managed to have a little poke around and have managed to take some readings.

According to AutoData, I should be getting 5v with the IGN on at pin 1 of the throttle body, I should also be getting 5v at pin 1 while idling, I'm not even getting 1v with the IGN on and nothing at idle, I get 12v after switching the engine off.  See the linked Vid below.



With the throttle body unplugged I should get 3 Ohms between pin 1 & 2 (the motor), however I only get .9 ohms and even if I move the butterfly manually I only get a max of 1.5.

Are there any other checks I can perform before before committing to replacing the Throttle body?

 

Are you testing with the actuator unplugged or plugged in, what wires are you connected to ?
I think you might be misreading the data, it says 5v/div scope setting, not that you are expecting 5v.
The 12v pwm signal at the end is the shut down self clean. If it is ground side switched  it may have full ground when "at rest" ign on fully open  so you would see 0v on the ground side of the motor and 12v on the other side. Or vice versa if it is power side switched.

If you see a change in resistance when you move the butterfly you are not measuring the motor you are measuring the position sensor

Don't condemn the TB until you are certain it is getting all the correct inputs. - or more likely that it is not outputting it's position correctly.  I would scope the output voltage at the feedback sensor and make sure you are getting two smooth voltage curves on actuation.

I was checking with it plugged in. looking at the diagrams again, it is scope settings and not a 5v reading as you describe, that’s my fault for not reading properly. Looking at the diagram, pins 1 & 2 are for the motor so I’m not sure why the resistance is changing, the diagram is very limited in what it tells me so don’t know which of the 5 wires would be for the feedback sensor. I wish Peugeot provided better data and also wish their wiring diagrams were colour coded rather than having numbers on the cables.