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Injector disappears

  • Carstuff
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5 years 6 months ago #37975 by Carstuff
Replied by Carstuff on topic Injector disappears
I havent done that .however when reving and coming back to an idle it gets rough and you could see the 02 lean and than it starts to smooth out and than the 02 start to stabilize. I wonder why it wouldnt turn a coil code if its having issues in the coil . this is odd.

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5 years 6 months ago - 5 years 6 months ago #37976 by hakachukai
Replied by hakachukai on topic Injector disappears
When you rev it up and drop the throttle to bring it back down to idle it might be cutting off the injectors.
That is somewhat normal on deceleration. you should verify it by scoping it out though.

Does it smooth out as soon as you see the O2 sensor recover?

Does it idle rough at any other time?
What are your fuel trims at idle?
How does the O2 sensor reading look at idle?
Last edit: 5 years 6 months ago by hakachukai. Reason: Details and typos

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5 years 6 months ago #37979 by Carstuff
Replied by Carstuff on topic Injector disappears
it does cut on the deceleration. you could feel a roughness for a few seconds while it tries to stabilize. it smooths out when the 02 recovers.

if you see no recovery on the 02 thats when it feels rough.
no other idle issue only after the decel intermittently rough.
i will try to get some readings while its misfiring from the scanner.

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5 years 6 months ago #37980 by hakachukai
Replied by hakachukai on topic Injector disappears
One interesting thing that it would be good to see is injector pulse vs Primary O2 voltage.

Find out exactly how long it takes for the O2 sensor to recover after the Fuel injector comes back on.

If this engine had an EGR valve, maybe disable it and see if the problem goes away. It could maybe be a hanging or sluggish EGR valve.

Pay attention to the Idle RPM's If they are too low it could be a sluggish Idle Air Controller allowing it to idle too low, which will cause misfires and mixture problems.

Just some ideas to check.

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5 years 6 months ago #37986 by Carstuff
Replied by Carstuff on topic Injector disappears
this is a video after the misfire comes up. everything shows lean. even under wide open throttle the numbers stay around the same lean.

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5 years 6 months ago #37990 by Carstuff
Replied by Carstuff on topic Injector disappears
This is when there is no misfire smooth idle. but you can see the numbers seem odd . the moment I wide open throttle the 02's go lean and the check light comes up and the rough idle comes back.

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5 years 6 months ago - 5 years 6 months ago #38000 by hakachukai
Replied by hakachukai on topic Injector disappears
Can you also add RPM's, Coolant Temp and Intake AIr Temp to the data/PID list?

In the misfire video I see that the MAP is reporting higher airflow. Is that because the engine was idling higher, or is it because something else is going on?

In the misfire video I see that the Fuel system is in Open Loop. Was it ever in Closed Loop?
Did it go to Open Loop because of the misfire, or did it never go to closed loop because the engine was not warmed up?

Anyway, the very next thing that I would do is:
  1. Check your system voltage at the battery and at the ECU before, during and after the misfire.
  2. That can cause all manner of strange and unpredictable behavior. Lets see if we can eliminate it from the list of possibilities.
    If you take it to an autoparts store and get a free battery/alternator test, they will also check your system voltage for AC ripple.
    That will tell you if you have blown / shorted diodes in the alternator or not.

  3. Check your fuel pressure before and after and during the misfire.

  4. During the misfire all of your O2 sensors are staying extremely lean. The simplest explanation for this is loss of fuel pressure, though unstable system voltage could do it too.
Last edit: 5 years 6 months ago by hakachukai. Reason: Details and typos

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5 years 6 months ago #38001 by Carstuff
Replied by Carstuff on topic Injector disappears
the misfire video shows higher idle this is at idle . my foot is not on the throttle , not sure why its showing higher. im not seeing any air leak. At wide open throttle the maf was reading 12.01 while staying lean.
this is after driving for a good 35 minutes fully warmed up. when it misfire it goes into open loop and stays there.

when it is not misfiring it goes into closed loop. however the 02 reading I think seems kinda off. rich upstream and lean downstream sometimes its the other way around and sometimes its normal. but when it goes lean at wide open throttle it seems like a fuel issue. the first code to pop up when it triggers is p0306.

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5 years 6 months ago #38027 by Carstuff
Replied by Carstuff on topic Injector disappears
IAT = 115f
coolant temp =206f
rpm =780
st ftrim1 = 4.0
st ftrim2 = 9.4
o2 b1s1 was at = 0.744 to 0.600 at least 3 seconds at idle sometimes 0.190 to .650 range
o2 b1s2 was at = 0.155 to .179 at least 3 seconds at idle sometimes 0.755 range
o2 b2s1 was at = 0.122 to .465 at least 3 seconds at idle sometimes .600 range
o2 b2s2 was at = 0.637 to .680 at least 3 seconds at idle sometimes .800 range

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5 years 6 months ago - 5 years 6 months ago #38030 by hakachukai
Replied by hakachukai on topic Injector disappears
What is the exact context of this data?

I'm assuming this context and I'm assuming that this data was taken at step3. Is that correct?:

  1. You rev it up, it misfires
  2. You drop the throttle and return to idle
  3. It idles rough
  4. It recovers and all is normal
Last edit: 5 years 6 months ago by hakachukai. Reason: Details and typos

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5 years 6 months ago - 5 years 6 months ago #38031 by hakachukai
Replied by hakachukai on topic Injector disappears

IAT = 115f
coolant temp =206f
rpm =780

st ftrim1 = 4.0 <-- Worth noting
st ftrim2 = 9.4 <-- Worth noting


o2 b1s1 was at = 0.744 to 0.600 at least 3 seconds at idle sometimes 0.190 to .650 range
o2 b1s2 was at = 0.155 to .179 at least 3 seconds at idle sometimes 0.755 range

o2 b2s1 was at = 0.122 to .465 at least 3 seconds at idle sometimes .600 range <-- Worth noting

o2 b2s2 was at = 0.637 to .680 at least 3 seconds at idle sometimes .800 range


You are showing classic signs of fuel delivery problems

I would proceed in this order:

The very next thing that you should do is a fuel pressure check.

Do it while driving if you can.
I usually do this by hooking up a fuel pressure gauge with an extra long hose. I put the gauge up in the windshield under one of the wiper blade and I record it with a camera as I drive.

If the pressure is too low check:
  1. Pressure regulator ( by pass it, look for big pressure increase )
  2. Fuel Pump Voltage and Current ( at the pump )
  3. Fuel Filters

If Fuel pressure is normal check:
  1. Fuel injector pressure drop test

If only 1 injector fails the pressure drop test, replace it.
If and entire bank fails the pressure drop test, check the fuel rail for clogs before you blindly replace the injectors.

If you are unable to do a fuel pressure drop test, you can switch the injectors from bank 1 to bank 2 to see if the problem follows the injectors
Last edit: 5 years 6 months ago by hakachukai. Reason: Details and typos

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5 years 6 months ago #38277 by Carstuff
Replied by Carstuff on topic Injector disappears
swapping misfire injector to another cylinder did not change. im going to check the pressure when I get free time. when at idle and o2 sensors are somewhat lean if I flooder the throttle the misfire bank doesnt really increase unlike the other bank which is ok,
the sensor is lying hmm..

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