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2014 Vw Passat 2.0l TDI crank no start

  • Rory67
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09 May 2019 08:49 #29441 by Rory67
Customer car towed to my shop. Lost power on freeway got off it stalled and now it's a crank no start. Hooked up Verus pro has a lot of codes but all are low voltage type codes from being crank down to dead and being jump started before being tow in. Cleared all codes. Replaced battery with new. While cranking scan tool shows good cam and crank data pids. Fuel pump in tank is good has fuel all the way to the common rail and injectors. High pressure fuel pump control valve is good.
Ecu requested and actual are good. High pressure actual fluctuates between 4200 and 4700 psi during cranking.
Ecu is not firing injectors verified by low amp clamp around injector solenoid wire.
High pressure fuel sensor on end of common rail has 1.02 to 1.18 volts back probed at sensor signal wire on my Vantage ultra scope. Waveform looks like saw tooth pattern which agrees with pressure readings the Ecu is reporting on data pids.
No codes after cranking.

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  • Chad
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09 May 2019 20:40 - 09 May 2019 20:54 #29456 by Chad
Replied by Chad on topic 2014 Vw Passat 2.0l TDI crank no start
:unsure: Where's Tommy Wolfe? :lol:

I don't know enough about these to be any help. I can post diagrams, if it would be helpful.

Here is the best I have to offer:

www.youtube.com/results?search_query=pos...agnostics+passat+tdi

"Knowledge is a weapon. Arm yourself, well, before going to do battle."
"Understanding a question is half an answer."
Last edit: 09 May 2019 20:54 by Chad. Reason: Corrected youtube link.

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10 May 2019 00:22 #29466 by ScannerDanner
Replied by ScannerDanner on topic 2014 Vw Passat 2.0l TDI crank no start
I'll get him...

Don't be a parts changer!
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10 May 2019 06:03 #29473 by twolfe89
Replied by twolfe89 on topic 2014 Vw Passat 2.0l TDI crank no start
Sounds like a lot of good testing already done. My first thought is to make sure the fuel and high psi pump is ok. Basically pull the metering valve off of the high pressure pump and check for metal contamination. Also you will be able to smell the fuel and make sure it’s diesel and not gas. Sounds like your cranking pressures are ok but still it’s and easy check to pull that metering valve off. I think it’s 2 t20 or t25 torx bits. The other tip would be to check manifold vacuum while cranking. Diesels don’t produce much vacuum so if you have high vacuum it could be a restriction in the intake. For example the shut off valve could be stuck shut I had that one time and it kicked my ass.
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10 May 2019 06:15 #29474 by twolfe89
Replied by twolfe89 on topic 2014 Vw Passat 2.0l TDI crank no start
If you unplug the shut off valve it should default to open. And one more thing. If you look at the injectors they should have a vacuum line that runs from injector to injector. There is a pressure retention valve that holds 7-10 bar on the backside of the injectors to help close them.
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10 May 2019 20:49 #29512 by cheryl hartkorn
Replied by cheryl hartkorn on topic 2014 Vw Passat 2.0l TDI crank no start
have you checked timing?

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  • Rory67
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13 May 2019 05:17 #29592 by Rory67
Replied by Rory67 on topic 2014 Vw Passat 2.0l TDI crank no start
Always check battery in amp clamp I'm going to put a piece of tape and write that on my amp clamp.
Ecu has injector control, on power and ground side (currant limited 50 volt system).
Checked timing last night pinned cam pump and crank all good. Found a cam and crank waveform it checked out good. High pressure side of system is above Ecu requested. Removed egr pipe from side of head to intake verified egr valve is closed cranked with egr pipe off cranked a little faster but no start. Checked for codes after that and got a p0473 exhaust back pressure circuit fault, that sounds like a sensor problem but I'm going down the plugged exhaust rabbit hole tomorrow. Thx for the input Mr wolf anything else would be appreciated. This thing is kicking my ass off and on for the past 6 days

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13 May 2019 05:21 #29593 by Rory67
Replied by Rory67 on topic 2014 Vw Passat 2.0l TDI crank no start
Yes pinned and by waveform, Ecu has injector control scope verified my amp clamp battery was low still no start

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13 May 2019 19:04 #29623 by cheryl hartkorn
Replied by cheryl hartkorn on topic 2014 Vw Passat 2.0l TDI crank no start
how about fuel quality??

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  • Rory67
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13 May 2019 20:33 #29627 by Rory67
Replied by Rory67 on topic 2014 Vw Passat 2.0l TDI crank no start
Good fuel no gas or DPF fluid contamination

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13 May 2019 22:01 #29633 by Rory67
Replied by Rory67 on topic 2014 Vw Passat 2.0l TDI crank no start
Today I pulled the o2 sensor after the turbo and checked for back pressure while cranking nothing to speak of doesn't move my vac pressure gauge. Blew air in o2 bung and it exits tail pipe. The p0473 was caused by me when I was checking timing I unplugged the sensor to get it out of my way.
If I unplug the throttle valve the Ecu still has injector control (firing) not a very good run away Strategery by Volks Wagon.
So onto the intake side checked data pids for MAF sensor data is all over the place.
Frequency is 22hz KOEO no where near the 800hz expected. Another mechanic friend in the area his daughter has a 2015 Passat 2.0 tdi I hope the maf is the same so we can swap a known good part. Unplugged maf still crank no start I guess no maf sensor failure strategy built into ECU maybe.

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16 May 2019 07:30 #29700 by Rory67
Replied by Rory67 on topic 2014 Vw Passat 2.0l TDI crank no start
My friend installed the MAF sensor from this car to his daughters car her and her car runs. Unplugged MAF on her car and it will start up and drive around. It's a 2015 Passat tdi 2.0 so that Ecu has a strategy to run with the MAF down. Tommy wolf do you remember looking at a Data pid "injection timing" or (timing advance)?
When cranking the pid displays a negative number like -.98 or -1.0 on my Verus,, Autel, snap onApollos, and BlueDriver. That doesn't look right to me. Seems it should be 2-4 degrees. When cranking has very little vacuum on a gauge. I covered the intake with my hand while I someone crank it and it will pull a over 20". So it has to be moving air. I get this 20hrz 4.87-.1 volt square wave on the 2 MAF sensor signal wires when the sensor sits overnight and I check it the morning the MAF signal wire shows 1.2khrz at KOEO air temp has a 20hrz signal. After trying to start I come back to the scope and both signal wires have the same 5v ref 20hrz square wave 50% duty cycle. Same shape waveform but go slightly out of time with each other.

Man this car is kicking my ass.

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20 May 2019 08:21 #29834 by Rory67
Replied by Rory67 on topic 2014 Vw Passat 2.0l TDI crank no start
Scanned a 2015 Passat at church yesterday and it had the same negative injection timing at start up after it started timing was at zero, if you rev it up a bit the timing would go up to 6 degrees or so then settle back down to zero degrees. So I guess it's normal for vw common rail. The customer wants the Ecu checked any recommendations of a company that can do that ?

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21 May 2019 21:03 #29909 by juergen.scholl
Replied by juergen.scholl on topic 2014 Vw Passat 2.0l TDI crank no start
Would the engine start with ether? Did you check compression?

An expert is someone who knows each time more on each time less, until he finally knows absolutely everything about absolutely nothing.

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21 May 2019 22:45 #29925 by Rory67
Replied by Rory67 on topic 2014 Vw Passat 2.0l TDI crank no start
No, but it knocks on it a bit. Relative compression 385-400 amps and I scoped the engines built in pressure transducers. Looks the same as a the 2015 Passat that I did some Testing on.

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22 May 2019 06:39 #29935 by juergen.scholl
Replied by juergen.scholl on topic 2014 Vw Passat 2.0l TDI crank no start
You might want to confirm the injectors actually do inject....

AC-couple the signal from the rail pressure sensor and you will get a recognizable pattern on your scope if the injectors are opening and a pressure drop is taking place. You can check on the 2015 model as reference if in doubt about the signature.

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22 May 2019 07:53 #29941 by Rory67
Replied by Rory67 on topic 2014 Vw Passat 2.0l TDI crank no start
Scoped the rail pressure sensor signal wire, it puts out a saw tooth pattern that coincides with injection pulses and is in the 1.02-1.18 volt signal the 2015 Passat has a similar shaped waveform but lower voltage. The 2015 is a CJAA engine and the ecu requested a lower hp fuel pressure of 3058psi. The 2014 CKRA requested above 4000psi and actual is above that. I pulled the return line off the last injector preretintion valve as Tommy Wolf suggested. fuel comes out of top of the injector in spurts and out of the return line in spurts equal to the other 3 injectors. I did install a vacuum pump to the top of the injector as described in the service manual and the injectors do hold a vacuum. We were under a tornado warning yesterday which came with a quarter size hail warning. The customer called and requested that the car be moved outside of the shop. Im glad he has a sense of humor.

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