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08 Hyundai Veracruz

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17 Jan 2019 09:27 #26244 by mobileauto
08 Hyundai Veracruz was created by mobileauto
on this veracruz I had an engine miss, felt like typical ign type miss-bad plug or coil- the only code was a P0305. It had new plugs and a new coil on that cylinder. I could duplicate the problem with a power stall or by driving it and the miss fire counter only showed #5, an occasional miss on another cyl.
The fuel trims were good on long and short termand mass air flow performed like expected and could not find any vaccum leaks, it would make the check engine light flash when driving.
Now for the rest of the story, I am fairly new with a scope, could not get to the #5 coil so I changed the plug and coil with another cylinder, no change. found a connector for #1, 3, and 5 injector, scoped the injectors 1 at a time, all looked the same and appeared to be a good pattern I did it both ways. long story short I could not pin point a problem, changed that injector and fixed it and have no idea what I should have seen on the scope-can anyone explain it to me?? thanks for your time

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17 Jan 2019 11:56 #26245 by Desmond6004
Replied by Desmond6004 on topic 08 Hyundai Veracruz
I personally couldn't tell you but a skilled technician can tell by the rising slope of the injector pattern whether it is opening properly or even closing properly. I imagine if you were to scope a good injector and the bad one and superimpose them on top of each other you would see a difference.

Getting involved in discussions because I have a lot to learn still.

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17 Jan 2019 12:25 #26247 by mobileauto
Replied by mobileauto on topic 08 Hyundai Veracruz
that was my point, I scoped #1,3,and 5, they all looked the same to me, I had to miss something

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17 Jan 2019 13:04 #26248 by Weycraze
Replied by Weycraze on topic 08 Hyundai Veracruz
You may not have 'missed' anything.

All of the waveforms could very well have looked the same. A scope can't see 'dirt' that doesn't cause an increase in resistance to the injector coil.

Hindsight is 20/20, but an injector balance test would have identified that injector as being 'different' or 'suspect' from the others. This would have been my next step after performing everything you already did.

The only other test I like to perform is a relative compression check just to ensure there are no compression, timing, issues when dealing with misfires.

You performed very good troubleshooting!
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17 Jan 2019 13:55 #26249 by GeekDIYMechanic
Replied by GeekDIYMechanic on topic 08 Hyundai Veracruz
Out of curiosity, did you scope voltage and current?

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17 Jan 2019 16:16 - 17 Jan 2019 16:18 #26253 by mobileauto
Replied by mobileauto on topic 08 Hyundai Veracruz
I did do it both ways just did see anything weird and wanted to go ahha i see the problem, I still got to the end just wanted to see it
Last edit: 17 Jan 2019 16:18 by mobileauto.

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17 Jan 2019 16:53 #26254 by Desmond6004
Replied by Desmond6004 on topic 08 Hyundai Veracruz

mobileauto wrote: I did do it both ways just did see anything weird and wanted to go ahha i see the problem, I still got to the end just wanted to see it

I read this article yesterday www.searchautoparts.com/motorage/drivabi...ent-misfire-concerns which suggests that if you monitor the downstream O2 sensor it will show rich when the misfire occurs if it's a spark problem and lean if it's a
fuel problem. It would be interesting to replicate the problem (might try that myself sometime) and see how it works.

Getting involved in discussions because I have a lot to learn still.
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18 Jan 2019 09:34 #26274 by Tyler
Replied by Tyler on topic 08 Hyundai Veracruz
Not trying to be a jerk, but are you sure the fuel trims were reasonable during the misfire? Because if you truly had a bad injector, I figure it should have created some kind of trim reaction. +10-20%, usually.

Otherwise, I'm with Weycraze. An injector balance test likely would have pinned this down, but I don't own one. :silly: If you're game for experimenting with your scope, I've had decent results from using a knock sensor on fuel rails to identify injectors that aren't operating. Not saying it would have shown you the problem on this car, just another tool in the box. ;)

www.scannerdanner.com/forum/diagnostic-t...-a-knock-sensor.html
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18 Jan 2019 10:30 #26276 by cj1
Replied by cj1 on topic 08 Hyundai Veracruz
Possible that injector o ring leaking air.

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18 Jan 2019 14:56 #26278 by Weycraze
Replied by Weycraze on topic 08 Hyundai Veracruz
Tyler, that is a fabulous idea,

I cant wait to try this on a known good vehicle for testing!

Sweet

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11 Feb 2019 21:42 #26989 by mobileauto
Replied by mobileauto on topic 08 Hyundai Veracruz
ok guys and gals, I have an update on the hyundai, and yes I am still screwing with it. after the injector it ran well for 2 weeks, got a call that it started running bad and then died, now it was a crank no start--was convinced it lost a fuel pump, checked power at the pump and it was good, checked pressure there and it was good. at this point is started but was missing but now it was on #2. I checked the coil and it was firing and the noid light blinked on the injector, by the way, had codes P0300, P0302 and P2169 or 2189 I forgot but it was lean on bank 2 which makes sense. end of day so I came back the next day, cleared codes and started it, now it set code P0306, P0300 and P2189, looked at miss fire counter and it is counting misses on #5, curiosity got me, cleared the codes and miss is gone. unplugged #2, computer killed the injector on that cylinder, 0.0ms, but now it is counting misses on #3--now on the last restart, it was not missing, it died and is a crank no start again.
I know I have got myself way off track somewhere, cant see the forest for the trees, if someone has seen this before great but I am hoping someone can shove me in a direction to start to get a handle on this

sorry for the long post and thanks in advance

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18 Feb 2019 19:58 #27153 by mobileauto
Replied by mobileauto on topic 08 Hyundai Veracruz
ok, I have a fix finally, wish I could tell you i figured it out with a scope and scan tool, some great testing and brain power but no that aint it...... I finally convinced myself it had to be the fuel pump, just gut feeling, was out of ideas and really frustrated, so I pulled the access cover, unplugged the pump and took it out to find
the dam thing was full of water. I am guessing after I gave it back to her the last time it ran fine until she bought gas and here I am.
I drained the tank, replaced the pump and so far no more problems

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18 Feb 2019 19:58 #27154 by mobileauto
Replied by mobileauto on topic 08 Hyundai Veracruz
ok, I have a fix finally, wish I could tell you i figured it out with a scope and scan tool, some great testing and brain power but no that aint it...... I finally convinced myself it had to be the fuel pump, just gut feeling, was out of ideas and really frustrated, so I pulled the access cover, unplugged the pump and took it out to find the dam thing was full of water. I am guessing after I gave it back to her the last time it ran fine until she bought gas and here I am.
I drained the tank, replaced the pump and so far no more problems
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