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Rough idle and high bank 1 fuel trims

  • IceHole
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2 years 5 months ago #61406 by IceHole
Rough idle and high bank 1 fuel trims was created by IceHole
Hello I read a post from cardude on 27 Feb 2019 that is exactly my problem. But there is no follow up and actually zero helpful information.
So let's do this again, shall we?

Vehicle: 1996 Explorer, 4.0L pushrod V6. ? miles.
engine I replaced with used motor from (now realizing) a sketchy online east coast snake oil sales man,
was told it has 91k,
+ leaky intake gasket, exhaust gasket.

1st thing I did: was to:
replace lower intake gasket, fuel supply manifold gaskets, all six injectors and O-rings, plenum gaskets, Valve cover Gaskets, PCV valve, installed following parts from old engine that have less than 2000 miles use.
Spark plugs, wires, coil pack, crankshaft position sensor, egr valve, IAC valve, DPFE sensor, EGR vacuum regulator, ECT sensor and the other one whatever it's called temp sensor i guess

following are more than likely original and worked fine on old engine
(I think/thought)
used my old engine wiring harness (parts are discontinued for this vehicle and hard to find brand new) this harness is sketchy at best, but worked, vacuum lines,
throttle body and position sensor, sensor is 18 months old.
GO TIME :)

was filling coolant system when right out the gate, bad water pump.:(
replaced pump and thermostat
GO TIME 2,0
Wait forgot to mention that I replaced the exhaust manifolds with my old ones (better shape) and new gaskets plus new cat gaskets both in and out
okay
starts up and runs like shyt.
motor sounds quite well internally plus under the covers the rockers and such looked like a low mileage motor.
but the typical Ford Exploder problems haunt the top-end of this junk yard motor, I had to deal with it on the old motor and won, but this MoFo has kicked my a$$ thus this post ( before taking it to a shop)

Symptoms:
-hard start (sometimes need to depress gas pedal)
-rough idle
-very rough idle when put in gear

Error codes none
cause I can't/won't drive it out of the hood because it won't get out of it's own way. Don't want to push it and cause serious damage.

It acts like vacuum leak, inline gauge has it at 15 inHg steady needle, snap of throttle drops needle to around 3 inHg then right back to 15.
smoked that bad boy and found broken vac line. repaired it
no change


BANK1
SHTFT +17%
LGTFT +25%
BANK2
SHTFT -02%
LGTFT +03%
O2 B1S1 0.86 V
O2 B11S2 0.695 V
O2 B2S11 0.355 V
CLOSED THROTTLE
ECT 183.2 f
FUEL SYSTEM STATUS CL
RPM 808
TIMING ADVANCE 10 DEG
INTAKE AIR TEMP 78.8 f
MAF RATE 0.6 LB/MIN
ABSOLUTE THROTTLE POSITION 20.30 %
INPUT VOLTAGE 14.5

FUEL TRIM BANK1 DROPPED WITH THROTTLE SNAP THEN RETURNED
Smoked again
replaced o-ring on oil filler tube and dip stick handle
smoked again nothing
GO TIME 3.0

NO CHANGE
What happened next is embarrassing but true
I started throwing parts at it like it was Christmas and he was my friend
DPFE SENSOR
EGR VACUUM REGULATOR
O2 SENSORS ALL 3
ENGINE MOTOR MOUNTS
TRANS MOUNT
TRANS FILTER AND FLUID
OIL FILTER AND OIL
FUEL FILTER
EGR GASKET
LOWER INTAKE MANIFOLD (From junkyard)
INTAKE MANIFOLD GASKET LOWER again
FUEL SUPPLY MANIFOLD GASKETS again
PLENUM GASKETS again
VALVECOVER GASKETS again
EXHAUST MANIFOLD GASKETS again
ENGINE WIRING HARNESS AND PCM (From junkyard)
VACUUM LINES (From junkyard)
TORQUE CONVERTOR (Remanufactured)
ALL JUNKYARD PARTS OFF SAME VEHICLE
CRANKSHAFT POSITION SENSOR
COIL PACK
POWER STEERING PUMP AND HIGH PRESSURE & RETURN LINES
EGR VALVE
RADIATOR & CAP
MAF SENSOR & AIR FILTER
IAC SENSOR
THROTTLE POSITION SENSOR
SPARK PLUGS AND WIRES
FUEL PUMP
EVAP VAPOR MANAGEMENT VALVE
ECT SENSOR
GAS CAP

NO FRIGGING CHANGE

If I didn't live in a city I would shoot this truck IN BOTH HEADS.

I hope there will be some inspiration found here before I start paying some over priced bastard to tell me what I already know
"you have a lean condition in bank #1"

I hope ya'll found my post as humorous as I found it therapeutic
ALL WELCOME HERE
:unsure: :dry: .
I suppose that's all I can think of.

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2 years 5 months ago - 2 years 5 months ago #61409 by Cheryl
Replied by Cheryl on topic Rough idle and high bank 1 fuel trims
You have to push the gas pedal down to start it? Sounds like an idle air control valve stuck closed. Have you checked fuel pressure I think that year has a Schrader valve on the rail. Have you performed an exhaust back pressure test on both banks?
Last edit: 2 years 5 months ago by Cheryl.
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2 years 5 months ago #61410 by ScannerDanner
Replied by ScannerDanner on topic Rough idle and high bank 1 fuel trims
That is a lot of "new" (as Eric O says, Never Ever Worked) parts.. Now we have an entire list of suspect "new" parts to go along with the original issue. Not good. This complicates ALL of this!!
1. your pass, fail list isn't helping us help you, non of us know what any of that means without research. A code list would help and also a description of what each of those "fails" are would help.
2. engine vacuum is at 15? That is way to low. What is engine vacuum at 2000 RPM in park? If it does not improve, you MUST start here. (mechanical issue)
3. vacuum leaks NEVER cause an engine to not be able to get out of it's own way, you do not have a vacuum leak
4. One bank is very lean, the other is normal. A restricted exhaust on one side can do that, but i think the opposite bank would be negative trims, not normal. But something to check for (restricted exhaust)
5. In this year range, Ford used Flex Fuel engines and they had different injectors, but that would effect both banks.
6. Are the injectors even firing on the lean bank? You mentioned a rough idle, do a cylinder drop test and see which ones are affected. I bet you the entire bank 1 side doesn't make a difference based on your descriptions

Don't be a parts changer!
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2 years 5 months ago #61416 by IceHole
Replied by IceHole on topic Rough idle and high bank 1 fuel trims
It will start without peddle now. Fuel pressure is 34ish climbs to 41ish at 2500rpm holds pressure when shut off. A little bleed off after 45min.
I don't know anything about back pressure test. I'll have to spend some time at the YouTube university and get back on that. Thanks for that. I need to go take my lashes from scanner for being a sugar daddy. Who knew throwing parts on a car was a bad thing?
Well, besides this gang.
TTYL Cheryl

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2 years 5 months ago #61418 by IceHole
Replied by IceHole on topic Rough idle and high bank 1 fuel trims
crap, i got this full reply with pictures and graphs and a half ton of other stuff on my phone but when i submit i got an error
"Kunene internal error: Please Please Please enable Kunene debug
mode and pray to a God you think is there. Then report problem to the www.kunene.org forum."

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2 years 5 months ago #61422 by IceHole
Replied by IceHole on topic Rough idle and high bank 1 fuel trims

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2 years 5 months ago #61423 by IceHole
Replied by IceHole on topic Rough idle and high bank 1 fuel trims
This platform has been a learning curve.

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2 years 5 months ago #61424 by Cheryl
Replied by Cheryl on topic Rough idle and high bank 1 fuel trims
Is the fuel system in closed loop at idle and at 2000 rpm? Do you have a way to do an injector balance test Comparing bank 1 and 2?

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2 years 5 months ago #61425 by ScannerDanner
Replied by ScannerDanner on topic Rough idle and high bank 1 fuel trims
You probably went over the limit of file size. I know there is one per post, not sure what it is offhand. Maybe one of my mods can jump in here and remind me?
I can't recover that for you. Sorry

Don't be a parts changer!

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2 years 5 months ago #61427 by ScannerDanner
Replied by ScannerDanner on topic Rough idle and high bank 1 fuel trims


You said this won't get out of its own way right?
I would be looking for a restricted cat on the negative fuel trim bank (I think lol)
But this can happen with a plugged cat on one side

Don't be a parts changer!

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2 years 5 months ago #61428 by Cheryl
Replied by Cheryl on topic Rough idle and high bank 1 fuel trims
I asked him did he check for a restricted exhaust he said he’d look into it don’t think he said knew how to
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2 years 5 months ago #61429 by ScannerDanner
Replied by ScannerDanner on topic Rough idle and high bank 1 fuel trims
I know I'm using a lab scope and a psi transducer on this one, but this is all you man. Even the system I'm working on.

I'll get you access to part 2 where I did end up drilling holes to prove which cat or cats were plugged. It's on premium I think.

Don't be a parts changer!

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2 years 5 months ago #61437 by IceHole
Replied by IceHole on topic Rough idle and high bank 1 fuel trims
yes it's in CL
don't know what that balance test is. I'll find out and let you know if I do or don't.
and the limit is File size 5megabyte Image size 0.9 meg,
lucky i copied all the text and pasted it in an email to my computer, but when i tried to copy from that email and past it here it got all bent out of shape and sent me to Go daddy. anyway i'm 95% certain I ruled out vacuum leak with the propane. so my smoker isn't a turd after all. going to go read your other posts and watch your videos Thank you.

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2 years 5 months ago #61438 by IceHole
Replied by IceHole on topic Rough idle and high bank 1 fuel trims
both banks are connected to a Y-pipe thats connected to a pair of cats that are
inline to muff. the downstream O2 is right before muff. I'll look at some vids and find out how to check that out. I just had to tick vacuum leak off my list first. DONE

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2 years 5 months ago #61439 by IceHole
Replied by IceHole on topic Rough idle and high bank 1 fuel trims
yeah I'm ignorant about that but I will learn how by sun up.
can i just disconnect the exhaust system at the Y-pipe and see if things get better?
probably not.
I miss my 72 Explorer
well Cheryl i got some vids to watch. Good evening

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2 years 5 months ago #61440 by IceHole
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2 years 5 months ago #61444 by IceHole
Replied by IceHole on topic Rough idle and high bank 1 fuel trims
Okay today I will get data for
TPS
BARO
O211
O221
MAF
at WOT and we will see if my cats are plugged. I'm going to find and watch that video you made on using the DPFE sensor to test exhaust backpressure right after I post this.
Happy Sunday, you too Cheryl

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2 years 5 months ago #61448 by IceHole
Replied by IceHole on topic Rough idle and high bank 1 fuel trims
Okay I just watched part 2. And I wanted to just say real quick that my exhaust system looks like Chris's minus the two front cats. So let me see if I am learning this correctly. I could pull my drivers side o2 sensor and with a backpressure gadget I would see if my 1st cat was restricted. It wouldn't matter if the second one was or not because they come together. But if they didn't I would check the back one by drilling between the two and check pressure there. But realistically there is no way the back one got plugged and the front did not. But now I wouldn't want to put on two new cats and have them get destroyed too. So. I know that me trying to find and fix the issues with the motor was what plugged them all that un burnt fuel, I get that. Is there a way to run this motor to see if I have addressed those issues and I can be confident that I won't F up the two new cats?
There I think I said that right

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2 years 5 months ago #61450 by IceHole
Replied by IceHole on topic Rough idle and high bank 1 fuel trims
I live in the city and there is no place to drive this at WOT. So my driveway will have to do.
and here we go.


I'm not seeing the BARO do anything, but I'm at sea level shouldn't it be 15 or 16 inHg? not 27?
and wouldn't the TPS say FT not PT
and shouldn't the O2 sensors jump to rich at the beginning of WOT not towards the end?
IDK
I said I would get this data today so, now I'll watch that DPFE video and get back to ya.
B)

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2 years 5 months ago #61451 by IceHole
Replied by IceHole on topic Rough idle and high bank 1 fuel trims
alright i checked the backpressure with a pressure gauge at the tube where the DPFE upstream hose connects. at idle the needle hovers over zero, but, it is swinging side to side in lest and inch worth of swing. at high rpm 3k ish it doesn't change. same place same reaction.
I have no clue what that means.
I don't expect anyone to leave their wives on Mothers Day and come read my posties.
So I'm going on a beer run.
LOL or should I say a Beer walk?

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