Guide to Choosing a Scope on a Budget

Interesting reading above.

I suspect that this forum has a majority of users who are either experienced technicians or who work in the field and require reasonably high levels of hardware/software ability. Comments and suggestions may reflect that. Might be wrong.

Me? I am a self taught home hack who only repairs his and relatives cars. I have a reasonable level of automotive electrical knowledge (I designed and installed the wiring system for my race car) but have had my eyes opened to the world of diagnostics by watching Paul's excellent YouTube videos. I have bought his "book" and am considering signing up to his paid YouTube channel. However, unless I have a scope I feel that his teachings cannot be fully put into practice.

Here's my problem. I would probably only need a scope once or twice a year. My current low level of experience says that I only need a basic scope (2 channel) and an assortment of leads. As does anybody, I need a scope that is accurate. I need a scope that shows an appropriate level of detail (hmmm until I start playing I perhaps don't even know what this is!).

In Australia, 2nd hand Snap-On stuff is like hen's teeth and even if available is TOTALLY out of my price range so don't bother going there. A new Picoscope 2 channel standard kit runs to AUD$2,500 (or about 1,800 of your George Washingtons) and is again TOTALLY out of my price range. 2nd hand do not exist.

Given my level of usage I would find it hard to spend more than AUD$500 (US$380) or so. Yes I know this is a pitifully low figure but wife and kids come first before my play toys! That's just life.

As far as I have been able to research, there are definitely no tools with a built in screen in my price range (new or 2nd hand). This leaves USB devices. I love the look of the Picoscope and it appears to be great quality (the great man himself uses one) but as I say even the unit itself with no leads is over my price range. This pretty much leaves one of the Hantek devices that are comparatively DIRT CHEAP. Have read varying reviews but it seems to be within my grasp. Agree/disagree?? Andy.FcFadyen seems to like them - any association with the brand?

For the uneducated like myself, trying to work out exactly which model I need is almost impossible. Bandwidth?? Refresh rates?? Memory?? Verticle resolution?????? Strewth I'm not even on Facebook yet (and never will be :evil: :evil: ).

Can somebody provide some advice as to which model(s) may be suitable???? Take into account that this is required to cover 99% of diagnostics that a home mechanic needs to do and abviously needs a suitable level or accurancy and detail.

Otherwise I am lost.............

Edit:
PS - I am not even sure what scopes are digital and which are analogue or even what the pros and cons of each are. I have tried to research....

I'm also a DIY'er and although Andy MacFadyen provided excellent information, I will throw in my thoughts, for what it's worth.

I am a firm believer in: "you get what you pay for" but I too have a family to support and since car repair is just a necessity / hobby, it falls very low on the priority list when it comes to spending money.

I bought the uScope (master kit: $400 US) (basic: $154 US) last year from AESWave.com and have been very happy with it, although it has been a long slow learning process. I have found that as a newbie to the scope world, it has been difficult to locate good comprehensive training sources. AESWave provides some uScope videos, and they are helpful, but they seem to be directed towards users that are already familiar with scopes. I ordered the book "Advanced Lab Scope Voltage & Current Testing" from them earlier this week, so hopefully that will help me learn.

The main reason I chose the uScope is the support I could receive from AESWave, if needed. If I were in your shoes, the costs associated with purchasing that scope from outside the US might be enough to steer me away from the uScope and towards the Hantek or DSO201 scopes that Andy refers to.

I knew when I bought mine that I would someday need to buy a scope with at least 2 channels. That day has not yet arrived but when it does, I might just pay a mechanic to diagnose the vehicle at that point.

AESWave uScope training videos: www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-Rl7bcue...vT5nWRhlTA_uO1OqAPXw
w2aew scope training videos: www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL746BF38BC2E068E0
Motor Age How2 scope training videos: www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLjzZLCfQx...JJcbTyH66A2T_ylBuDsJ

My first scope was a Hantek 1008C I bought on eBay for $48. You can buy them new for about $100. You will spend way more than that on the probes, leads, and accessories that are need to make the scope useful. These items are necessary no matter what scope you use. But they can still be used if you choose to upgrade to a better scope in the future. Scannerdanner has plenty of information on how to use the scope that applies across the board to most any other scope. Bottom line is, any scope is better than no scope, but if you can afford it get a Pico.

Scopes are only difficult to use until you play about with one. After a couple of hours the sky is the limit.

One of the problems with recommending a scope is that shipping, customs duties and local taxes can make a huge difference in cost between continents. Keep in mind although Pico and Snap-On have excellent hardware most of the price premium for these scopes is due to the time and money they pour into software development to make automotive tests simpler for the user.

The Hantek 1008 is the cheapest of the cheap and quality is very "iffy", but if you stick to using only 1 or 2 channels the hardware is good enough for decent captures but like most Chineses scopes the software interface is awful but has the saving graces of pre-configured automotive tests which by-pass a lot of the chore of setting up using the interface and make it a lot easier for the beginner. It also comes with a good selection of probes and connectors which if you bought individually would almost equal the cost of the scope. It is a USB scope so is tied to using wth a Laptop or PC which might not be the easiest thing in a the paddock of a race track. In short a lot of bang for your buck, it will do useful work good to learn on but ultimately frustrating. Hantek have some new more upmarket automotive models, the hardware looks better but the software interface is unchanged.

The uScope and DSO201 Nano are excellent tools. The uScope I suspect won't be a realistic option outside North America but the DSO201 Nano is on eBay at a fair price. Disadvantages of DSO201 Nano are small screen, single channel, and the standard firmware interface, also you will need to buy leads and adaptors from ebay. The standard software is unusable but increasingly I haved notice DSO201 being sold on eBay with upgraded "Paul's firmware". I believe Paul's firmware was the base on which the AesWave uScope firmware was built. My own DSO201 runs on Ben-F firmware
The DSO204 is an upgraded version of the DSO204 faster with 2 usable analog channels (nb. 2 analog channels + 2 logic channels) the firmware appears based on Paul's Firmware so should be good. These DSO Nano scopes like the uScope fit in your pocket to are ideal for taking to race meeting.

I have run out of time I will add more on this topic in a few hours.

More good info. Thanks.

I recently saw an OTC Pegisys handheld scope/scanner for sale on a reputible auction site. Never heard of them before so I started to research.

As far as I can tell this is both a scope AND a scanner. I would assume it's scanning ability is limited to reading generic codes and would not contain the necessary software to interogate specific car systems? I did see a training video on YouTube that showed a whole number of car brand symbols so maybe I am wrong on the generic only thing?

As a scope, would something like this do pretty much everything that a 2 channel USB scope does? The screen is not as big but looks fine.

I think these also allow connection to an internet site to get specific car help information such as component voltages/frequencies and also help with fixes and wiring diagrams. I would assume there would be a yearly fee to access something like that?

Being in Australia, if I went down this handheld option, I would need something that had good European and Asian car info as US domestic cars are not sold here other than a few Jeeps.

Would seem that this one is 'similar' to some of the Snap On diagnostic tools?

Not sure what issues would exist with firmware updates (cost, availability) or with content updates (again cost and if it is even supported still)?

Just a thought on a different path.......

Time for a report on my Owon SDS7102v Labscope with optional battery
Purchase cost at December 2015 £360 including optional bag and battery
I really like using this scope I can get up and running a grab a decent capure fairly quickly, but it isn't designed for car work and while it suits me it won't suit everybody. The battery life between charges was never as good as expected and after a years use it has died completely. When I bought the scope I was offered a special deal on the battery and bag bundle and I suspect the seller was off-loading a suspect load of batteries. As a replacement battery is fairly costly at £60 I am reluctant to commit to buying a replacement which may suffer the same short life as the original, in the interim I am continuing to use the scope on 230v power. I am very tempted to buy a new scope a Carscope Viso.





Good points
Real not virtual knobs, automatic setup, decent memory, excellent built-in software filters, USB ports for Flash Disk and PC connection, VGA port for connection.

Bad points;
Labscope not specialist Automotive Scope, Fairly bulky, Disapointing battery life between recharges, 230v mains power, battery has died after 1 years use. Channel 1 trace is difficult to see in bright sun light, Owon's PC software interface is not good.

you should add the picoscope 2204a to your options.. in the USA it cost about 140 usd but only come with the standard lab probes, you will spend more with the accessories specific to automotive use, this is the general purpose oscilloscope, not the automotive version, but in reality you don't need the automotive version to make measurements, the automotive ones just sometimes makes your life easier by including presets configuration for different sensors.
The advantage of the picoscope is the software, it uses the same software for all their scopes, from this 140 usd to the several thousand dollars versions.
As a word of advice if you get this scope, get the external attenuators because it is only rated to +- 20V with a x1 input, with an x10 attenuator you can extend that range to +-200V.

After reading thru the thread I'm left wondering which would work better fora novice and occasional user with an XP laptop?
XP isn't supported by Pico Auto and I'm left with their basic software but better product
Pico 2205 2 channel no probes is $200 as of post date
or the
Hantek PC USB 8CH $90 -$120
I expect cheep useless probes with that one but I have probes .
Is the software for the hantec more user friendly to the auto realm than the Pico non-auto software?

The Hantek 1008 is a bargain basement scope, the hardware is limmited and the software is a pita to use, yes you get drop down menus with pre-set automotive sensor test but most of them need a lot of tweaking to give a useable capture. One major issues is the software can't invert the waveform, that might not seem a deal breaker until you try and get your head round the reversed polarity secondary waveform from a wasted spark coil. I am pretty sure the software interface was designed by a programmer who has never actually used a scope in a working environment especially for automotive work.
Hantek have no technical support --- none.
The probes and connectors bundled with the Hantek are actually quite good and would probably cost about 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of the scope even buying the parts from eBay.

The Pico2000 series aren't sold as automotive scopes which is why they aren't bundled with Picoscope Automotive software, that XP isn't supported by the very latest revision of Picoscope automotive software is different and fairly minor issue.
The non-automotive Pico scopes aren't supported by the automotive software -- although if you do an internet search may find a work around not-sanctioned by Pico who after all have invested megabucks in their automotive software and support.

LOL
how are you mate, Fellow Aussie here
my name is Martin

Mate, i'm an Electrical and I.T. and Telecommunications Expert
Let me tell you what you should do .

Now.. Your budget is $500 right, AWESOME
Get yourself down to Parramatta road.. EMONA INSTRUMENTS

(78 Parramatta Rd, Camperdown NSW 2050)
buy a Rigol DS1054Z

if you shop around, you'll find it for around $400
i think Emona are doing them for around $500 or close to it

to get a review of this scope.. GO HERE


NOW LET ME GIVE YOU A TECHNICAL LESSON IN WHAT IS IMPORTANT AND WHAT IS NOT AND WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW BEFORE BUYING A SCOPE

Let me only address 3 Models of Rigol Scopes
DS1000 Series Specifically DS1052E
DS2000A Series Specifically DS2072A
DS1045Z

ok, so here's the deal around 10+ Years ago
Rigol Brought out a Scope.. DS1052E.
now... it was around $800 AUD, a Bloody bargain considering.

Now before i go ahead
let's address some TECH SPEC points

BANDWIDTH = The difference between the Highest frequency and Lowest Frequency
The DS1052E had a Stock standard Bandwidth of 50MHz

this means that you can measure ANY SIGNAL up to 50 MHz, However if you wanted to measure a signal that was 60 MHz, the scope would not recognize it

what you need to consider here is.......
What sort of work are you going to be doing vs what scope do you need.
NOW.. for Automotive work, the Pico scopes don't go above 20 MHz, so basically pick what you want
but keep in mind if an engine produces an abnormal frequency above 20 MHz, YOU'LL NEVER SEE IT. so it helps to have More bandwidth
and... THERE'S A TRICK HERE and i'll get into that later
also as a standard guide, don't get anything lower than 100MHz

CHANNELS : Basically this means, how many signals do you want to look at simultaneously.
Look... I've got a 2 Channel Scope, I've had it for 5 years, Never needed anything more.
2 is fine for a beginner, 4 is better, but i doubt you'll use more than 3 at any given time.

SAMPLING RATE : here is the simplest way to understand this
1. Sampling Rate is measure in SAMPLES PER SECOND (Sa/s)
2. That means..... Imagine you have a Volt meter
Now imagine you want to measure the Power in your wall outlet (240 V AC) ok.
Now imagine You want to get regular readings so that you could see CHANGE OVER TIME.
Now imagine that you decide you will take 1 READING PER SECOND... got that.

that would be called "A Sample Rate of 1 Sa/s" 1 (Sample Per Second)
got that

ok, so
The PicoScope 4225 has 400MS/s (Mega Samples Per Second) Mega = 1 Million

so what
The Rigol DS1052E, as a minimum has 1GSa/s (1 Giga Sample per Second)
Giga = !,000 Million Samples per second
now is this important.. YES
Why is it important

well. when you take a SHOT of a waveform and freeze it for analysis

if your scope has 400 MSa/s vs 1 GSa/s
and you want to zoom .. RIGHT IN and really see what's going on.
it's going to look really squared off and really shit,
so, if you are viewing a SINE WAVE , which is supposed to be rounded off.
if you have a bad sampling rate, the rounded peaks will look like Sharp Triangular mountains.
Trust me, you don't want this
but.. it does depend now whether you are zooming in or not
i have found that a High Sample Rate is invaluable
My scope has 3GSa/s
i feel that 1GSa/s is a minimum , even with Automotive, because at 1 GSa/s you won't miss things that a scope at 400MSa/s will miss

MEMORY DEPTH - ok, ... so the best way to explain this is this, the More Memory depth you have the deeper your scope can zoom in, it's really that simple

a Low memory depth would be 28 Mpts (Mega Points) 52 Mpts is good


BEYOND THIS, YOU PLAY WITH YOUR SCOPE AND YOU FIGURE IT OUT

now back to the story of the 3 scopes


so.... the DS1052E was made by Rigol as an Entry level BUDGET SCOPE that was pretty well built and well priced
ok... that's great (do not buy this scope)

WHY ???
well. if you shop around , you'll find it for around $350 - $450
Remember
it has
2 channel Input
50 MHz Bandwidth
1GSa/s Sampling Rate
and a pretty small screen that no one ever liked

BUT, you can get the DS1054Z for around $400
the specs of the DS1054Z are

4 Channel input
50 MHz Bandwidth
1GSa/s Sampling Rate
12 Mpts Memory Depth (upgradeable to 24 Mpts )
and a bloody huge widescreen display
so why bother with the other one

I saw a guy on Gumtree 2 days ago... hehe
he's selling his DS1052E for $460
Clearly he wants to get rid of since it's around 6 years old and he wants to upgrade to a brand new DS1054Z

who can blame him

lastly , i own a DS2072A

2 Channel input
70 MHz
3GSa/s
56 Mpts Memory Depth
and the same size screen as the DS1054Z

at the time of buying it
it was a choice between the DS1052E for around $800
or fork out $1,100 for the better one
i went for the better option, and i see now (5 years later) if i had taken the other one, I'D REGRET IT

NOW... YOU CAN THANK ME FOR THIS LATER

You know how i said that the DS1052E with the small screen
has 50MHz Bandwidth
but you can pay Emona instruments or Rigol to upgrade to 100MHz ?

and you'll probably pay a few hundred dollars for it

WELL. YOU CAN DO IT FOR FREE. hehe

HERE'S THE TRICK
rigol have been sneaky about this
Rigol decided that in order to cut costs, they would create a DS1000E Series and ALL OF THE SERIES WOULD BE THE SAME SCOPE........ Exactly the same one

The only difference is.....
the bandwidth is limited by software
aparently when you pay , they insert a USB stick and it runs an Encryption key which then UNLOCKS YOUR SCOPE TO THE FULL 100MHz

so with the DS1000E
this was just a matter of going to You Tube and getting the key from someone because they were all the same
HOW STUPID.. huh
as if someone's not going to share it around

so they stuffed up with that

then on the DS2000A (my one) that came stock standard with 70MHz,
but UPGRADEABLE TO 300MHz

you bet your arse i did hehe

however, this time, it's not as simple as just a key, it's an encryption algorithm
i had HARDWARE VERSION 1.0
and this would only work on Version 1.0 or 2.0
the current version is 3.0

WHAT HAPPENED WAS THIS
a bunch of guys using Logic analyzers , Accessed the ROM chip internally and found that rigol were being sneaky again
and they didn't build a new scope for the 300 MHz model but instead limited the software

so, long story short, it was cracked and a software solution was released to everyone who had a scope

Rigol caught on and Released HARDWARE VERSION 3.0
which
a) Stops you from rolling back to version 2.0
b) does not allow the encryption program to run
hehe.. Smart arses

BUT, IF YOU GET THE DS1054Z
a) it's the cheapest bloody thing on the market right now
b) Everyone is going nuts over it, Mainly because it has 4 Inputs
c) YOU CAN UPGRADE IT AS FOLLOWS. FOR FREE, AND IT'S EASY TO DO

50 MHz bandwitdh up to 100 MHz after upgrade
12 Mpts Memory depth Unlock up to 24 Mpts Memory depth
The sampling rate stays the same

you can also unlock higher functions that i won't go into
it's really cool stuff

Bottom line
Spend like $400 - $500 on a kick arse scope that will outmatch any of the Pico, hantek, Vellerman and the rest of the Automotive ones
it's my understanding that the mechanics like to use the FLUKE 123 Scopemeter.
now.. Fluke is a kick arse brand.. no question

but , these handheld scopes and PC Powered scopes are built pretty poorly to be honest
and if they have Frequency Aquistion, i can assure you it's Software based calculations, it's not Hardware Aquisition (big Difference)

so.. yeah. Much cheaper scope and does more
what more do you need ?

Hope that helped you pick a scope and understand the basics of it

No eBay APP ID and/or Cert ID defined in Kunena configurationA really low cost option for an oscilloscope if you have a soldering iron is this kit from ebay. It is less than $30 and is surprisingly good. I bought mine several months ago and am amazed at its features including storing the trace and calculating max, min, avg voltage in the trace as well as duty cycle, frequency etc. I have not had an occasion to use it on my cars yet but did diagnose and fix problems on a powered loudspeaker and a signal generator. You can find several listings on ebay but here is one:

I know this topic is about budget scopes, but ill add this anyway.

If you are a technician and do a lot of diag or want to do a lot of diag, just buy a pico. Yes it is more expensive, but it is so much better than even a snapon scope. But think about this, how much was your toolbox? Youll spend $10k+ on a box but complain about spending $2-3k on a scope kit. When you get the pico set it up on a smaller box or cart, that way it is always ready to go, you will use it more that way

I found a cheap power probe like the p100 on line for 60 dallars I havnt used it yet but I been studying sample rates . I think snapon samples at 200 times per second I had bought a dso pocket scope similar to that one ,gave to my son in Sweden everything high dallar in Europe. I suppose be great for checking for signals but not fast enough to catch fall outs or spikes on intermittents. but u got the old ford Wiggle test for grounds and opens.

I purchased a sainsmart 2 channel dso for quickness,i have a 20:1 antenuator and wanted to get an opionion before i try it on c.o.p. testing

The Sainsmart should be Okay although like most of these Chinese scope I think you find the software is a pain in the neck to use and it won't have a setting for an x20 attenuator as these are only really used for automotive work so you will need to use the x10 setting and multiply by 2.
Thr alternative is to buy an x100 attenuator for coils and an x10 for normal gasoline injectors.

wes p wrote: I found a cheap power probe like the p100 on line for 60 dallars I havnt used it yet but I been studying sample rates . I think snapon samples at 200 times per second I had bought a dso pocket scope similar to that one ,gave to my son in Sweden everything high dallar in Europe. I suppose be great for checking for signals but not fast enough to catch fall outs or spikes on intermittents. but u got the old ford Wiggle test for grounds and opens.

200 samples per second is a graphing volt meter a useful tool but not a scope , actually most automotive work can be done with a fairly low spec scope, although my own scope samples at 100gs/s I would trade most that speed for memory depth which is one of the many areas Pico scores top marks. Where Pico falls down is it is tied to a Notebook/Laptop. Hand held and tiny palm sized scopes including the uScope and DSO Nano are super handy for working away from base or when working under the dash.
The cheapest scope I have seen that I think could do useful work is USB scope called the "SimpleScope" it is made in the Ukraine it occasionally appears on eBay and sells in £20/25$/22 Euro price I think I will buy one just to see if it could be a useful tool.

I'm willing to buy Launch ScanPadII and it's Labscope; are you aware that Launch's Labscope is pretty well or PicoScope is more better?
Im giving more value to Launch over Verus because Launch allowed much extra access to resets.
Give your suggestion please

The launch is a hantek. Pico is go to be a lot better

I have a Hantek 1008C and when I turn on a third channel it freaks out. You can see a video here:

I was thinking about getting a Pico 2204a, but shipping and customs is a big issue. But since the hantek works ok with two channels, I'll probably just wait.

All multi-channel DSO work by splitting the bandwidth between channels. The Hantek is not a very fast scope to start with but if you try looking at a fastish signal with multiple channels the scope won't keep up also I noticed some channels on the 1008 are just noisy than others.
A faster scope not only collects more data points but each data point is an average of x number of readings. My own scope is rated at 1giga Samples/second and 100mhz bandwidth. I truth each channel will only give 1/4 of that but compare that 25mhz with the performance of the Hantek 1008. The 1008 also lacks filters in the software so any high frequency noise can be an issue -- the easy answer to is to make a simple low pass hardware filter that connects between the scope and the signal you looking at.

Having said all that the Hantek 1008 is quite useable tool but with major limitations. Hantek make better scopes although like most Chinese made oscilloscopes they have major limitations and the software has limitations.