Crazy Mopar Troubles

2007 Dodge Magnum R/T, 66,000 mi, purchased "used" in 2010 with 29,000 mi on it. I originally discovered (2) issues with the vehicle the day I went to purchase which were... The EVIC would light up with multiple lights for around 15-20 seconds then drive fine afterwards. Also, the engine had a intermittent oil drip on the motor that caused a constant "burning oil" odor. The dealer agreed that both issues were valid and offered to take $10,000 off the car to buy as it was, so I took it. The oil drip turned out to be just an over tightened valve cover, but the EVIC problem has lingered on since 2010 and has now become a major problem for me. Originally the EVIC wasn't a problem for me as it only acted up for a few seconds once per drive. The all day problem started in 2021 after sitting the entire winter. I never drove the car in the winter as I have other cars to drive. The car would start and run like a dream, for about 10-15 minutes, after that the EVIC goes CRAZY and multiple lights flash off/on while driving. If I'm driving when it happens the car will continue to drive, just the EVIC lights are flashing off/on and the interior chime is going the entire time. If I stop for a stop sign or traffic light, the car will not shift out of 1st gear until I pullover, shut the car off, wait a couple minutes and then restart the car. After that, it would drive fine for about 5-10 min more before going crazy all over again. I've pulled the codes, but not with a scanner, with my radio... (Alpine, hooks to ODB2). I get multiple, loss communication, codes (U0103, U0002, U0141, U110E, U110F, U110C, P0480, P0481, U1403, U1411, U14C1, P03C0, P0211). I took the car to the dealer for repair, they had the car for (4) months before returning the car claiming that they can't find anything wrong with it (LOL, that's funny). When I started the car to leave, the EVIC showed multiple warning lights still lit, but they can't find anything wrong with it... right! The car is now at a supposed to be "diagnostics" shop. They initially said $165 to diagnose the car that quickly changed the next day to an additional $500. They also, initially, stated that I had a simple communication problem on CAN C, that's what the extra $500 was supposed to be for diagnosing the CAN BUS, but for some reason they recently notified me that they changed my ignition switch and the problem still exist... Duh, WTH! Now they want to change my IPM stating that they "THINK" it's getting hot from the engine and malfunctioning. This is a $750 guess plus labor! I need HELP!!! These guys are supposed to be "technicians", but they seem to be just guessing and swapping parts at my expense. I live in MD, but I'm willing to transport my car to PA for Scanner Danner, or his class, to diagnose as a class assignment. This is a 12 year old problem that needs to end because I know it's something really simple. I just need the right person to work the problem and not just make $1000 (oops, not it) guesses. I haven't decided on the IPM replacement yet, what do you guys think???

Junbug225 wrote:

These guys are supposed to be "technicians",

You're correct, they are just technicians. They are not diagnosticians. Technicians replace parts, diagnosticians find the reason a part needs to be replaced.

IMO, you have a wiring problem which is one thing technicians hate to deal with. It's time consuming and pain staking. If it was my car, I would have it in my garage where I could systematically go through the wiring looking for contact points, heat and stress points, corrosion in connectors even loose or bent pins, male and female. Loosing conductivity with the CAN buss's is what causing the EVIC to go crazy. Ground wires are of major concern. Loose, corroded, stressed.

Crossing fingers while changing the IPM is not exactly a diagnostic strategy.....If you have the time, tools and knowledge (prob. 1 or more are missing?) go con VegasJAK advise.

Otherwise you need to pay someone to do this for you. As you describe the problem as fairly repeatable at this time it shouldn´t take days to figure it out, imo. The fee you payed should have been good for a 4 or 5 hours of diagnostics, what exactly has been done in this time and are there more outcomes apart from thinking an IPM change may be the remedy?

I agree with Vegas and Jeurgen,

At this point, don't waste your time and money someplace that is going to throw stuff at it and take your money. I hate to say this, but their is no such thing as "customer service" anymore. If you don't have to drive it, put it somewhere to do some further testing. Maybe it's something you can fix and if it is- I guarantee you'll save money. Hope you get it fixed.

Thank you to all who have voiced concern or tried to help me. But the problem that eats away at me is knowing that this is probably just a simple fix and all I can get from repair shops and dealers is... "sell or get rid of the car", WTH. I'm not dumping my Magnum, I've got a stack of new parts for her and big plans for her future. The dealer had my car for (4 months) with no fix, but at least they had the decency to "NOT CHARGE ME", I know... Shocker! When I would recreate the problem, in person, some shops turned me away wanting nothing to do with the car... smh. The so called "Electronic Diagnostic Shop" it's at now wants to charge me for things wrong with the car that have nothing to do with my complaint. I know the car needs new tires, brakes and multiple bulbs are blown, but that means nothing to me at this point because why do I need new brakes & tires if I can't drive the CAR??? I'm starting to get bad vibes about this shop and I'm thinking I need to bail before I get in any deeper than the $695 I'm already in for with no results. I was thinking of trying to "self teach" myself from watching Scanner Danner vids, but even if I do gain some understanding of electrical mechanics, I'd still need several thousand dollars worth of tools to even have a percent of a chance of solving my issue. It is very confusing to me that the car will run fine (seemingly, until it heats up) or maybe (it's the fan control module) causing the problem or just maybe (heat has nothing at all to do with the issue), just a coincidence. If the car didn't start at all or the EVIC goes crazy from the start then I would have better confidence that I could narrow down the issue, but this drive fine then go BESERK later has me completely baffled. I am in desperate need of reputable repair shop, here in Maryland, to take my vehicles to for repair.

Does anyone know how I can reach Scanner Danner himself??? PA is not that far from MD so I was hoping to transport my car to PA and ask Paul if he could please, please, please fix or at least just diagnose my car. If not Paul then maybe take it to his brothers shop for diagnosing or maybe Paul could use my car as a class assignment for his students. At least then I would know that my vehicle was diagnosed intelligently and that all troubleshooting possibilities were considered before a solution or replacement part was considered.

If someone has a connection to Paul Danner or his brothers shop can you please have one of them contact me through the Scanner Danner site please.

I understand your frustration, but I think your racking your brain too much and too fast about the issue. I and anyone else would agree that wanting to fix something by the end of the day would be great, but obviously does not happen. I think you need to relax and take a breather then do some research, ask questions and attack this issue in a methodical way. In other words, dont try to tackle too many things at once. Look at one area and when satisfied, move on to the other. I cant speak for Paul Danner, but that would be cool if the school did that. Im not sure how you could contact Paul directly, but you might be able to speak with a moderator.

As far as fancy equipment goes, you dont need that for your basic troubleshooting. Sure, a nice scope would be great to have someday. What you need is some basic items. Here's a couple that I would recommend-

1. Scanner Danner "Engine Performance Diagnostics" book
2. Digital Multimeter
3. Computer safe test light
4. Spark tester
5. Compression tester
6. Vaccuum gauge

With the above items as the basics, you can do most troubleshooting with. I have the Scanner Danner book and I also watch the videos and take notes. All of the notes I have gets typed and put into a "go-to" reference binder. I hope you get the issue fixed and keep us up to date on what you find.

I just want to say here that it's easy to point out someone's failures from the comfort of your recliner.
This clearly isn't a cut and dry issue. I'm sure it didn't sit idle for 4 months at a shop until they were satisfied it had collected enough dust.
Maybe the ignition switch was fired from the parts cannon, maybe they had some test results that pointed to the switch being possibly faulty.
Without knowing what tests are being performed at these shops or why they want to replace what parts they want to replace, it's hard to say that they are not doing their due diligence.
The fact is that sometimes it's hard to condemn a module (and your cluster is a module). You can only gather so much evidence and make a call based on what you see.
I'm not saying they are right, and I'm not saying they are wrong, but that's the point. I know you're frustrated and without your car, but as you realize (and probably appreciate now more than ever), electronic diagnostics is not easy, or everyone would be doing it. Even the best diagnostic shops will let a couple slip by them. The You Tube "celebrity" technicians like Scanner Danner, SMA, and Bernie Thompson all have made bad calls and will do so again.
As a professional technician who takes pride in my work and devotes a large portion of my time training and researching, the only thing more frustrating than having a hard time finding a problem is getting high roaded by someone with a thimble full of knowledge and perfect hindsight.

Junbug, I have been researching your problem and have come up with a couple of fixes that may prove fruit full. The first does not involve using any tools. There is a wiring harness that runs from the TIPM along the upper side of the engine to the firewall. The harness contains a set of twisted pair wires for the CAM. This harness as it runs along the engine block comes in contact with a metal coolant pipe. The fix was to move the harness away from the hot coolant pipe as the twisted pair wires inside the harness are positioned next to the outer edge of the harness making close contact with the hot pipe. The theory is the heat effects the CAM signal.
Second involves the TIPM. Dodge owners have found the TIPM prone to corrosion. The fix is to remove the unit, inspect for corrosion and clean all the terminals.
In both cases, this resolved problems your car displays which was the same symptoms the DIYers had with their Magnums and Dodges.

Good find JAK (John... You messed me up good bro )
Curious to see if either one is the case with the OP

Junbug,

Any news on this, did you check what vegasjak mentioned?

Okay guys, sorry for the late response, but I'm not getting notifications from the site. Thanks guys for all your support (MrMike, Noah, Juergen.Scholl and VegasJak). Here's the update on the Mag... I got a call from the shop today stating that the shops expert technician says that he's stumped at this point and does not know where to go from here so I might as well come pickup the car, (smh). The only thing he could tell me is what I already knew and that's that I have a disruption of the CAN BUS line. He said that he wiggled/jiggled the wires around in the engine compartment, he replaced the ignition switch as it seemed a little loose, but no fix. He also replaced the TIPM thinking that was the problem, but after idling the car for around (15) minutes, as usual, the EVIC started lighting up like a Christmas Tree.

Problem With Car Again: It starts up and runs perfectly fine for about a good (15) minutes or until it gets warmed up and then... 1. The chime starts. 2. The traction control & ESP/BAS lights come on. 3.The engine light. 4. Next the lightning bolt, battery, ABS, brake and oil lights, flash off/on and also all (5) gear selections highlight too (PRND & Manual Gear). 5. The speedometer goes dead, the tach and the temperature dials move up/down at will.

FYI: I do have a (30) second video on my phone of the EVIC in need of an EXORCISM, but I don't know how or if I can post it, but I'll try!

If you have Can Bus issues, a scope is probably a tool that would help diagnose this as well as a good wiring diagram. Any of the modules on this CAN Bus line could be disrupting the signal if they are having issues. Ivan with Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics might be the person you can take it to. He is also in PA and is known for fixing some of the harder problems. He also sometimes takes road trips to fix vehicles. You might contact him and see what he says.

Thanks 70monte, but I don't have any of those tools. But I'm really considering that I might have to just bite the bullet and purchase a decent scanner tool, lab scope, breakout box, test lights, volt meter and dive in on trying to diagnose this thing myself. I just don't have the confidence that I can find the problem when multiple professionals have tried and failed. I'd hate to waste another $2000 in tools on top of what I've already wasted going from shop to shop. And on top of the last shop NOT fixing my car, they also have broken my $1700 Alpine head unit (I just found out today). It used to read DTC codes, reset DTC codes, read tire pressure monitors and display, plus I can't go into the settings and setup the radio after having the battery disconnected. It turns on, but that's about all it does. The rearview camera comes on when you first put the car in reverse, but blacks out as you start moving backwards This is why I have never been a fan of taking my cars to any shops other than the dealer for repair work. So now that's broken too and I have to hope I can find the installation booklet and possibly figure out what they might have done that's keeping it from functioning properly. I'm not a car guy like that, but I have done all of my own alarm installs, car starters, radio stereo installs, LED lighting because I've always had problems with shady shop screwing my car up worse then it already was. So I might have to try and just "self teach" myself electronic diagnostics, but it looks really complicated. I'll definitely need some help from the forum because even if I purchase the top of the line scan tools, I really don't know the steps to take to actually track down the problem. Do you, 70monte, or anyone else here know if the (step by step) to running down an a CAN BUS issue are listed in Paul's book???

Unfortunately, with cars these days, you pretty much need a good bi-directional scanner and a scope and the knowledge to use them. I'm just a DIY'er that became interested in this stuff after taking forever at finding a parasitic drain on my girlfriend's car and going the long way around to figure it out. I decided to buy Paul's book and subscribe to his premium content in this website. I have learned a lot in the past two years and have bought a lot of tools and equipment to help me with my car and friends and family. There is still a ton I don't know and I'm learning every day. In your case where you need the car fixed now, that is not optimal. Having the right equipment, knowledge, and service information is critical if you are going to have a decent chance of fixing these problems. Paul has a ton of free videos on YT as well as Ivan with Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics and Eric O of South Main Auto. Start doing a search on YT for Can Bus issues and see what comes up.

Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics is your best bet if want to get it fixed right.
As mentioned he does make road trips and is interested in crazy troubles.

Okay guys here's the latest update on my on going car troubles. I retrieved my car from the so called "Electronic Diagnostic Shop" as they finally admitted that they couldn't fix it. On my way home driving the car it started doing the Christmas Lights thingy, but it kept driving okay and so did I (home only 12-15 minutes away from the shop). Upon parking the Mag at home I tried to clear the EVIC lights as I usually would do by using my radio. I have a $1700 Alpine radio that hooks to the OBD2 and read/clears codes, displays tire pressures on an animated car display and hookups for multiple sensor/camera displays, 360 degrees around the car plus a backup camera. My 2007 Dodge Magnum R/T had none of these options that the newer cars today have as standard, but having this radio changed that for me. Well, to my utter disappointment, when I hit the button to display the DTC codes, nothing happened. I turn the car off and then turn the switch back on and tried again... nothing. I then try to display the tire pressure as the handling felt a little funny on the drive home... nothing. So I hit the settings button to go in and see if they some how erased my setup... nothing, I can't get into settings AT ALL. I then restart the car and throw it into reverse to see if the backup camera will activate and, to my surprise, it does come on, but immediately turns off while still in reverse. The radio is working as it does turn on and it also plays music, but that's about it. All of the expensive options I purchased it for don't seem to work anymore. Unbelievable, Smh!!!

So now I have a broken radio to add to the list of things I need fixed thanks to this crappy shop. I described my problem in detail and showed them a video I had of the EVIC lighting up like crazy and I was assured that their electronics guy was the best in the business and this was nothing he couldn't handle... RIGHT!

So at this point I'm now assembling the tools that I believe I might need to try and diagnose the problem myself. I'm not sure at all about anything I'm doing meaning the tools I need or the steps to track down the problem, but I'm hoping that with a little help from you guy here on the site, I'll be able to make it happen. So far I've ordered the Autel MS906BT scanner, the Autel MP408 maxiscope (hopefully these two play nice together as some people have said you can use the maxiscope with the MS906BT by updating the program and others say it won't work you need a hire model Autel scanner). I've also acquired an OTC Breakout Box and an Incandescent test light.

Any suggestions as to what other tools I might need are greatly welcomed. I've scoured the internet and YT searching for a problem fix like mine, but no luck. All I can find are CAN BUS (no comm/no starts), but my car starts and runs just until around the 15 minute mark and then I experience multiple No Comm codes. I'm thinking that it might have something to do with a heat related issue like the fan turning on when the car reaches normal temp or maybe a fan sensor or relay that's grounding out the communication on that CAN Line. Every time I have an problem the fan is whirling very loudly like it's out of control, but I don't ever see any codes relating to the fan.

Who has the best detailed wiring diagrams, anyone know??? I'm thinking either Mitchell or All Data, but I really need to see if the codes/lights I have are all on the same CAN Line which might mean I could be on to something. If this is not the case, I might have to start considering that I might have a bad PCM even though I've been told by multiple shops that it's NOT the PCM. Also, the manufacture does not make my PCM anymore so I'm REALLY hoping that's not the problem.

No eBay APP ID and/or Cert ID defined in Kunena configurationSounds like some nice equipment you are buying. Do you have a multi-meter?

I use Alldata DIY information and have a yearly subscription to one of my cars. The other older ones I have factory paper manuals for. You definitely need wiring diagrams if you are going to have a hope of figuring this out. The theory of operation for the various components and the code setting criteria is also nice to have. There is a set of factory service manuals for your car on Ebay for $199 or make an offer. Five book set.

Having a real scan tool will probably give you a better idea on what codes you are getting and may show some that your radio could not access. With all of the communication codes you are getting, it sounds like some module on that CAN line is pulling the rest down. Once you have access to a wiring diagram, you can see if all of the module that are showing communication errors are on the same CAN line.

If you are not already, I would subscribe to Paul's premium channel. It's the best $11 a month you can spend on information that can potentially help you fix this issue. I have learned a ton just from his book and premium channel.

Thanks for the info 70monte and no, I don't have a multi-meter yet so thanks for the heads up. I'll look into the repair manuals on ebay to see if they are the same as I have or different, thanks. I had ordered a Repair CD Rom from Dodge a while back, but I can't find the thing now. It was about 200 pages of repair procedures and trouble shooting. I had 1 for mechanical repair and 1 for auto body repair/dismantle right from Dodge, the same as the mechanics used. They were pretty costly too. Smh

As for now, I'm just reading the scanner instruction manual to try and get it all setup. I registered it yesterday then updated it, now I'm just trying to figure out how to use it, how to hook the scope to it and how to connect the scope to the probes. The scope came with NO instructions (thanks Autel), but I found some online so I have to print off the instruction manual when I get some more printer paper and ink. I'm not sure if I need to register maxiscope with Autel too like the scanner...? After I figure out how to hookup and use the equipment, I'll probably go on AllData and Mitchell and print off the CAN BUS wiring diagram for my car from both and see if I can see some sort of connection between the CAN line and the codes I'm getting. Also, I wanna see if there's a fan module or relay that might be on the CAN line that's causing the problem because it seems like the car only acts up after the engine gets warm and the fan turns on (about 15 min of driving).

Thanks again for your help!

Hi. Peter here. So sorry for your troubles. In most videos I've seen regarding can bus troubles, an approach similar to finding a parasitic draw is used. Try unplugging what modules you can near heat sources and see if anything changes. A shot in the dark. If it's really heat related then it should still be broke after a quick restart.

If you still believe it's heat related, try spraying suspected components with keyboard cleaning spray to make the cold again. Please, anyone chime in if that seems far fetched