Help us help you. By posting the year, make, model and engine near the beginning of your help request, followed by the symptoms (no start, high idle, misfire etc.) Along with any prevalent Diagnostic Trouble Codes, aka DTCs, other forum members will be able to help you get to a solution more quickly and easily!
2012 Terrain with 2.4 Ecco. 167k miles. Vehicle will lope / lunge/ after being driven for about 10-15 minutes, only when idling in gear. Throw it into park or neutral and the idle smooths' out. With it in gear, give it a little gas with the brake on and it smooths' out. I have been driving the car for two months with this condition, as it drives great, except for stopping at traffic lights. I just put it in neutral. No codes other than the P0420.
When this condition started a few weeks ago, it was only throwing P00240, for the Cat. I didn't feel a bad catalytic convertor would cause a poor idle. I took it to my mechanic who said to replace the cam actuators. So, I replaced them along with the cam sensors, plugs and an oil change. Pulling the air box tube off, there was a good bit of sludge and water. (More on this later.) Replacing said parts didn't affect the idle problem.
Upon starting one morning, it had no power, just like a bad Cat. Had it towed to my mechanic and he tells me it is the timing chain. Had him perform that work. But it didn't correct the idle problem. (It probably needed the chain replaced anyway.) Back to the mechanic and he tells me the Cat is bad. Take it to a local muffler shop and he tells me the Cat is bad. Take it to a different mechanic and he tells me the Cat is bad.
I "eliminated" the upstream Cat (we do not have testing here) as a test to see if this would have any impact on the idle, which it didn't. (Yes i get the P0420 codes.) I thought that if the Cat was bad, then this would make some change - good or bad.
I pulled the intake manifold and cleaned the PCV port, which corrected the water and sludge in the Air Intake Box. But didn't correct the idle.
Cleaned the Throttle Body with a toothbrush and the correct cleaner.
I have NOT yet cleaned / checked the MAF.
I saw a post here about the Fuel Pressure Sensor and HP Fuel Pump, but the actual Fix wasn't clear.
I plan to clean / check the MAF first, then move on to the Fuel Sensor and HP Pump.
Unless !! Some expert here can provide better direction. I have learned one thing. I do not have any "mechanics" in my area. Only "Automotive Techs." If there isn't a code - they can't fix it. Diagnostics have never been my strong suite. I can tune a carb with a vacuum gauge. But new computer controlled vehicles are another animal!
Hey GSeymour! So in addition to the P0420, you're now getting the P0089 and P228D, correct? If you clear the codes and go for a 10-15 drive, how consistently do the P0089 and P228D come back?
Scan data is gonna be your friend on this one, IMO. You'll need something that can look at OEM data for Fuel Rail Pressure and Fuel Rail Pressure Desired. Because the high pressure fuel pump is driven by the intake camshaft, you'll also need to be able to look at camshaft timing PIDs.
Ideally, the scanner you use will be able to record those PIDs while you get the engine to do it's lope/lunge symptom. We're looking for rail pressure to be 5 Mpa over desired for over five seconds to set P228D. At the same time, we're interested to see if the intake camshaft angle is meeting desired.
When you say 'camshaft actuators' got replaced, do you mean the solenoids in the valley of the valve cover? Or the camshaft sprockets?
Thanks for the response. I had been getting the P0420 for several weeks. It will only start to lope / lunge after driving for about 20 minutes, but it would not throw any codes, other than the P0420. When I drove it for about 30 minutes, that is when I (finally) got the p0089 and P228D codes.
I have a scan tool, but don't think it will provide data while driving, but I'll try it. I will clear the codes and go for a 30–45-minute drive and see if the P0089 and P228D recur. I pulled the data from the last time it threw the P0420 error. It shows the following:
Again, these codes are related to the PO420 - Not the P0089 / P228D so I don't know if these are relevant.
I replaced the Camshaft Actuators, the oil driven ones in the valley and the camshaft position sensors located on the right front and one on the right back (firewall side) of the engine. The guy working the parts counter wrote on the box which one was for the intake and for the exhaust. I hope that the electrical connectors were different, if they are different parts. I installed them per his instructions.
I have a very busy week and will be traveling all next week (not in the Terraine) so it may be a few days before I can clear the codes and see if it will throw the P0089 and P228D. I will respond as soon as I have more data! Thanks, do much for your help!
Drove the car for 45 minutes, pulled in my driveway and allowed it to lope / lunge and the check engine light came on and the Reduced Power warning came on. After driving it for an extended period, it will lope / lunge in Park and Neutral as well as in any gear. So it doesn't seem to be transmission related.
Here are the codes;
P228D – Fuel Pressure Regulator 1 exceeded control limits – Pressure too high.
P0089 – Fuel Pressure Regulator Performance.
P0420 – Catalyst System. The o2 sensors still think there is a catalytic convertor there.
My code reader records freeze frame data only for the first code. I got lucky so I have the data for the P228D.
Fuel Sys 1 = CL ; Fuel Sys 2 = N/A ; Calc Load = 37.6% ; ECT = 198 Deg F;
STFT B1 = 0.0% ; LTFT B1 = -8.6% (negative) ; Fuel Press = 58 psi ; MAP = 16 (inHg)
Engine RPM = 849 ; Vehicle Speed = 0 mph ; Spark Advance = 21.0 Deg ; IAT = 70 Deg F
MAF = 0.63 lb/min ; TPS = 18.0% ; Run Time = 1682 sec ; Fuel Press = 2189 psi
Command EVAP = 19.6% ; Fuel Level = 41.2% ; Warm up DTC Clr = 1
Clr Dist = 14 miles ; EVAP_VP = -0.5 InH2O ; BARO = 29 inHg ; CAT Te 11 = 1384 Deg F
ECU Volts = 14.868 ; Load Value = 23.9% ; EQ Ratio = 0.999 ; Rel TPS = 7.8%
Ambient = 57 Deg F ; TPS B = 18.0% ; ACC Pedal D = 19.2% ; ACC Pedal E = 9.4%
Command TAC = 11.0% ; ALCH_PCT = 8.6% ; IAT 11 = 70 Deg F.
I am astounded that the fuel pressure is that high. Maybe that is normal.
Any suggestions you can provide will be welcomed.
Thanks for the help. Since I already had a Fuel Pressure Sensor that is on the fuel rail and wanted to replace the intake manifold gaskets, I installed the sensor. That did not correct the problem. No change in behavior or drivability. It only does this at idle. I threw the same codes and this time the fuel pressure was even higher, at 2252 psi.
Perhaps the Idle Air Control Valve, which I believe is a part of the Valve Body (not a separate unit). Is it possible that the high fuel pressure issue is a symptom and not the cause? Since it only does this at idle and I have to let it lope / lunge, idle roughly for a minute or so, until it throws codes.
What else do I need to check that would cause the fuel pump to have high pressure? How do I determine if this it the other fuel pressure sensor, that I believe is attached to the fuel pump in the fuel tank? Is it a bad connector, or possibly the ECU? Again, all help is appreciated.
Hello 1st time user and visitor I actually saw this post and created an account just so I can share this video with you I found because I was going through the same problem and I found several people who also had the same problem.
Long story short, I hope this helps and quite honestly I'm trying to find the part number for this and the proper terminology for it. presently, I'm about to do the repair myself and I'll let you know By confirming My results If this in fact does clear it up.
Any updates to this problem? I have the same issue with my 2.4L terrain and am about to go buy 2 fuel pressure sensors to see if that fixes the problem
