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1999 Triumph Trophy 900 Pickup Coil update.
- Xtrider
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3 years 8 months ago - 3 years 8 months ago #54283
by Xtrider
1999 Triumph Trophy 900 Pickup Coil waveform looks wrong was created by Xtrider
Hello. I have a 3 cylinder bike. It has a 7 tooth rotor. Cylinder one is 3 teeth, cylinder two is 2 teeth, cylinder three is two teeth. Each cylinder separated by 120 degrees. In between each group is a consistent pulse about half the voltage amplitude. I believe these pulses are confusing the ecu. I scoped a 2nd inductive pickup coil. Same exact behavior. I opened gap to max of .8mm. could my timing wheel have something weird going on to false trigger the pickup coil in between the teeth? I'm a bit confused. I attached a picture with the waveform and the wrong pulses with red circles around them and a picture of the rotor so you can see the sequence of pulses expected.
Last edit: 3 years 8 months ago by Xtrider. Reason: Spelling error
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- Dtnel
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3 years 8 months ago #54285
by Dtnel
Replied by Dtnel on topic 1999 Triumph Trophy 900 Pickup Coil waveform looks wrong
I'm just curious as to what you're using to get your waveform? Maybe it's something with a newer firmware than what I'm aware of.
Regarding the waveform I am a green person in that area as I used guided component tester still even after several years. Need to get outside my comfort zone as I know it'll make me better doing what I do.
Regarding the waveform I am a green person in that area as I used guided component tester still even after several years. Need to get outside my comfort zone as I know it'll make me better doing what I do.
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- juergen.scholl
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3 years 8 months ago #54287
by juergen.scholl
An expert is someone who knows each time more on each time less, until he finally knows absolutely everything about absolutely nothing.
Replied by juergen.scholl on topic 1999 Triumph Trophy 900 Pickup Coil waveform looks wrong
Do you have a capture with a complete engine cycle? Going by the signature you're dealing with a VR sensor. With higher rpm the signal amplitude will increase and this can/will throw off the ECU.
Is the reluctor photo showing your specific trigger wheel or is it a generic photo? There seems to be a stamp saying West Germany on it and then it would be (at least) 10 years older than the vehicle....
What is the exact problem you're experiencing and what is the story behind it?
Is the reluctor photo showing your specific trigger wheel or is it a generic photo? There seems to be a stamp saying West Germany on it and then it would be (at least) 10 years older than the vehicle....
What is the exact problem you're experiencing and what is the story behind it?
An expert is someone who knows each time more on each time less, until he finally knows absolutely everything about absolutely nothing.
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- Xtrider
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3 years 8 months ago #54289
by Xtrider
Replied by Xtrider on topic 1999 Triumph Trophy 900 Pickup Coil waveform looks wrong
Hi. This is a cheap Amazon oscilloscope. I'm probing the pickup sensor with it disconnected from the wire harness
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3 years 8 months ago - 3 years 8 months ago #54292
by Xtrider
Replied by Xtrider on topic 1999 Triumph Trophy 900 Pickup Coil waveform looks wrong
Hello. That was a picture from an extra one I bought. I attached photo of the current rotor. It's a slightly different part number. I don't have a pic of the full cycle but when I zoomed out on my scope I can see it cycling: 3 pulses(cylinder 1) followed by 2 pulses(cylinder 2) followed by 2 pulses(cylinder 3). But I also see the shorter false pulses in between each correct pulse. The fake pulses appear consistent from cycle to cycle. The back story is I bought this project bike. It's only running on cylinder 2. I put a timing light and cylinder one fires at double the speed it should. Cylinder 2 fires correctly, and cylinder 3 will give a random pulse here and there. I swapped the ecu and the behavior didn't change. Measured all 3 ignition coil resistance and all in spec. If I swap cylinder 2 ignition coil/plug wire with cylinder 1, the behavior does not change. Cylinder 2 still runs correctly. I swapped the pickup coil(vr sensor) with a new one and still the same exact issue. I gapped it at the minimum and maximum values. My waveform is scoping the pickup coil with it disconnected from the wire harness. The ECU is disconnected. The waveform is at starting RPM.
Last edit: 3 years 8 months ago by Xtrider. Reason: Forgot something
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3 years 8 months ago - 3 years 8 months ago #54295
by Xtrider
Replied by Xtrider on topic 1999 Triumph Trophy 900 Pickup Coil waveform looks wrong
Last edit: 3 years 8 months ago by Xtrider. Reason: Spelling error
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3 years 8 months ago - 3 years 8 months ago #54340
by Xtrider
Replied by Xtrider on topic 1999 Triumph Trophy 900 Pickup Coil update.
An update. I removed the rotor and pickup coil and spun the rotor with drill on my desk. The waveform was clean without the false pulses in between the correct ones. So now I'm thinking there is some type of EMI noise bring created possibly from the alternator. This RF is probably being picked up by the pickup coil wire.
I have disconnected the alternator while cranking and still see false pulses. I even held a pickup coil with my hand connected to a scope. So it had no physical connection to bike. It still got false pulse but only while holding it next to the rotor. So the rotor is sending out some type of magnetic field only when installed on bike. His could this happen?
I have disconnected the alternator while cranking and still see false pulses. I even held a pickup coil with my hand connected to a scope. So it had no physical connection to bike. It still got false pulse but only while holding it next to the rotor. So the rotor is sending out some type of magnetic field only when installed on bike. His could this happen?
Last edit: 3 years 8 months ago by Xtrider.
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3 years 7 months ago #54408
by Xtrider
Replied by Xtrider on topic 1999 Triumph Trophy 900 Pickup Coil update.
Today I installed new coils. I found 3 for $90. No change when I crank it over and checked with timing light. Only cylinder 2 had consistent pulses. Found out the short pulses on the waveform above on the pickup coil is from the starter. I then removed the rectifier and regulator. I check the 3 phases in alternator and measurements good with no shorts to ground. Rectifier looked good also. I installed rectifier and resoldered wires to alternator, then installed regulator. Miraculously all 3 cylinders look solid with timing light now. It ran but only on cylinder 2 but I captured the pickup coil with my scope and it's clean with no short pulses when it's running. There is no noise on pickup coil. I rechecked the spark plug in cylinder 1 and it looked bone dry to me. My next test will be some starter fluid through the air box. Then find out why cylinders 1 and 3 are not firing. But now the timing light looks solid I think it's just a fuel delivery problem now.
The following user(s) said Thank You: juergen.scholl
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3 years 7 months ago #54409
by juergen.scholl
An expert is someone who knows each time more on each time less, until he finally knows absolutely everything about absolutely nothing.
Replied by juergen.scholl on topic 1999 Triumph Trophy 900 Pickup Coil update.
That's an interesting, good news. Waiting for a future update.
An expert is someone who knows each time more on each time less, until he finally knows absolutely everything about absolutely nothing.
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