2011 Dodge 3.6 Pentastar Idle Issues

Greetings,

I am new to the website but have enjoyed watching all the Scanner Danner You Tube Vids. I am more of a mechanical versus electronic guy but wanting to learn.

I have a 2011 Dodge Durango 2WD Citadel 3.6 Pentastar engine. I have 244,00 miles on the vehicle and I am the original owner.
The engine has been well maintained for all of it’s life with oil changes and tuneups as specified. I started to get the CEL at 240K so I had new plugs, coils installed by a local mechanic and within days the CEL returned. The mechanic said he was not responsible for the CEL so I took over the project myself.
I checked the codes and it had 301, 305 codes so I checked the plugs and found out the mechanic used China plugs. After watching a Scanner Danner vid about the same issue on this vehicle I switched them out to the recommended Champion plugs and it ran great …for a day.
Then the codes 300, 301, 303, 305 appeared. Since I only had a basic BlueDriver code reader I went deeper into the motor and became a parts changer. This 2011 engine was known to have lifter needle bearing failures causing ticking issues. Based upon this I opted to open up the valve covers and replaced ALL of the lifters and rocker arms. I had read that these type of mechanical issues could cause the codes so it seemed like a reasonable exercise. While I had it opened up I did a Cylinder leakage test that came out with no problems on ALL cylinders.
Now it’s all back together and the same 301, 303, 305 codes continue to show up. I checked the fuel pressure and it says it is within spec. There is no vacuum leak and the manifold pressure is at 13.3 inHg so I don’t think I have any leaks.
I am at wits end and cannot determine where else to look to fix the issue. I have a multimeter at my disposal but that this it.
I was curious if I should have done a relearn on the crank/ cams after i took it all apart. Any other suggestions would be appreciated. I hate CEL lights!

Thanks
Sketchmo

Relearn for cam crank is only necessary if replacing sensors. As for what else to look at regarding the misfires would be coils and injectors and (spark plug wires if used). You can ohm test primary and secondary sides of coils and see if it's in spec as well as injectors but ideally you want to use an oscilloscope to see injector waveforms and ignition coil primary and secondary waveforms.

You want to look at the freeze frame data as it may point out important clues.

I will check the coils and injectors with an Ohmmeter in a few days. I do not have access to an oscilloscope so I might have to go to a shop to get that done but would rather not have to. I have attached an image of the readings from my BlueDriver OBD that shows some data. It includes Short Term Fuel Trim, Intake Air, Manifold Pressure, Long Term Fuel Trim data. As you can see AT IDLE or coasting I get severe negative spikes on the Short and Long Term Fuel Banks, Also at idle I see spikes in Engine Temp, Intake Air Temps as well as Intake Manifold Absolute Pressure. All of these 3 images are at idle once the engine was warmed up. I’m not sure if you can figure out a direction for me to go but take a look at these. I tested the Intake Air Temps via voltmeter back pinning the wiring and it read at 3.75 volts. Based upon SD vids it said the reading for a VW should have been at 5 volts. How can I find the voltage for this Dodge? I also disconnected the Air Temp and ran a jumper between the two inputs for this and it pegged the Air Temp at 375 degrees.
My guess it that I am having bigger issues with the computer but I am just a shade tree guy. Thanks for your input as always!

I wouldn't sweat those spikes in the fuel trim graphs. I'm willing to bet those are caused by the BlueDriver software, and not an actual fuel trim concern.

I agree with Juergen about the Freeze Frame data. That'll give us a much better idea of when the misfire is happening, which can help you shorten the list of suspects.

Since you have a BlueDriver, it'd also be nice to see the Mode $06 misfire counts to see how badly #1, #3 and #5 are misfiring. TID $83 if I remember right.

Speaking of 1-3-5, it just so happens that all three are on the same bank. :blink: :



That *might* indicate a bank one problem. Cam timing, plugged cat, like that.

I tested the Intake Air Temps via voltmeter back pinning the wiring and it read at 3.75 volts. Based upon SD vids it said the reading for a VW should have been at 5 volts. How can I find the voltage for this Dodge?

What SD said about 5V is true if the temp sensor is disconnected, as a way to check the computer and signal wire integrity. With the sensor connected, the voltage will be lower than 5V because the temp sensor is doing its job as a resistive short to ground.

Tyler,
Here is the data from the Code 6 readings on the Blue Driver during a cold start/ warmup. The CEL came on and identified a P0300 misfire. As you will see on the data I have misfires all on the right bank with the biggest problem being cylinder #5.
FYI I have all new Coils and new Champion plugs on all cylinders. I also had the Cats replaced a month ago along with the 02 sensors on both sides of the Cats. Also I had run a leak down test on ALL cylinders and there is virtually no difference on all 6 cylinders. Here were the readings.
Cylinder Pressure Test - PSI
1 - 80/79
2 - 80/79
3 - 80/78
4 - 80/79
5 - 80/76
6 - 80/80

If there is any other tests I can run and share on the BlueDriver let me know. See the attached image of the last scan.
A2 = Cylinder 1
A4 = Cylinder 3
A6 = Cylinder 5

Thanks again for your input!

A quick update. It now looks like all of the cylinders are missing based upon this last scan. See attached!

Thanks for the Mode $06 shots. Makes the picture a bit clearer.

I definitely agree that #5 is the biggest offender. Higher current drive cycle and EWMA counts than anyone else. I know you're getting multiple codes and multiple misfire counts, but I'd still suggest attacking #5 directly. It's going to be the easiest misfire to reproduce, and isn't obscured by the intake in this application.

I see that you've done a cylinder leakdown test, which is excellent. Have you checked static or running compression? I ask because it's entirely possible to have a cylinder that doesn't leak, and still be low on compression (especially running compression). Since #3 seems to be relatively light on miss counts, I'd be fine with taking static and running compression readings from #3 and comparing them to #5.

Tried swapping cylinder 5 plugs, coil with for say 2, 4 or 6 by chance since the issues seem bank 1 related?

This could help isolate if the issue follows or not.

I just ran the “running” compression readings on cylinders 1, 3 & 5. All cylinders are at 90LBS with little or no variance.
On some of the research I have found it says the pressure on these V6 Dodge 3.6 Pentastar should be between 125-90LBS.
Again since the engine has 245K miles I guess that 90 isn’t that bad.
I would have run the check on cylinders 2,6 & 6 but they are all covered by the intake manifolds that require a LOT of wrenching to get to.
Switching coil on #5 with another backup coil that was “new” a month ago that the other mechanic placed in the vehicle.

Wondering where to go to next?
Thanks for your continued patience and suggestions!

DTNEL - Due to the intake manifold covering the top of 2,4 and 6 and would require a lot wrenching to remove it I am trying to avoid this unless it is an absolute necessity.
THANKS

On the attached image check the Mode 6 info. As a reminder I switched the coil 5. I kept the same plugs in 1,3 and 5 and left coils in 1 & 3 alone.
The new data has issues with cylinders 1,2 and 3 now. I also cleared all codes to get rid of the CEL. The confusion continues!

Sorry ignore that last image. Here is the correct one.

Sketchmo wrote:

Sorry ignore that last image.

It's actually kinda interesting. A2 0C and A6 0C are unchanged between it and the later image. And A4 0C has only gone up a bit.