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Extreme negative fuel trims at idle, bogging accel at cruising speeds
- Badrummer2112
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4 years 1 month ago #51004
by Badrummer2112
Extreme negative fuel trims at idle, bogging accel at cruising speeds was created by Badrummer2112
1999 Honda Civic EX 1.6L D16Y8 5-MT
Can a stuck open evap purge solenoid (the one on the fuel rail) cause my Short Term numbers to go negative? They are going all the way negative (-30) and only clear up when accelerating hard. Then when I'm in 4th or 5th gear at cruising speeds (40-60mph) it bogs down whenever I want to accelerate a little bit more. It has new fuel injectors, a new fuel regulator, a new distributor and new oxygen sensors. There are no vacuum leaks that I can find and my timing is correct (double checked this past weekend). Any help or suggestions is appreciated before I spend $300 on a oem purge solenoid.
Can a stuck open evap purge solenoid (the one on the fuel rail) cause my Short Term numbers to go negative? They are going all the way negative (-30) and only clear up when accelerating hard. Then when I'm in 4th or 5th gear at cruising speeds (40-60mph) it bogs down whenever I want to accelerate a little bit more. It has new fuel injectors, a new fuel regulator, a new distributor and new oxygen sensors. There are no vacuum leaks that I can find and my timing is correct (double checked this past weekend). Any help or suggestions is appreciated before I spend $300 on a oem purge solenoid.
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- jreardon
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4 years 1 month ago #51005
by jreardon
Replied by jreardon on topic Extreme negative fuel trims at idle, bogging accel at cruising speeds
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4 years 1 month ago - 4 years 1 month ago #51006
by jreardon
Replied by jreardon on topic Extreme negative fuel trims at idle, bogging accel at cruising speeds
Last edit: 4 years 1 month ago by jreardon. Reason: you're right, it's on the fuel rail
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- Badrummer2112
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4 years 1 month ago #51009
by Badrummer2112
Replied by Badrummer2112 on topic Extreme negative fuel trims at idle, bogging accel at cruising speeds
Ok I'll give this a try tomorrow and report back. Thank you!
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- Badrummer2112
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4 years 1 month ago #51037
by Badrummer2112
Replied by Badrummer2112 on topic Extreme negative fuel trims at idle, bogging accel at cruising speeds
Ok so I disconnected the electrical connector and the hose going to the evap canister, and at idle there is some vacuum on it. I left the electrical connector unplugged and put the hose back on and pinched it off. Check the short term fuel trims and they are the same. Could I also have a bad pcv valve?
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- VegasJAK
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4 years 1 month ago #51039
by VegasJAK
"an open mind let's knowledge flow in and wisdom flow out for a man who has neither never listens to those who have both".
Replied by VegasJAK on topic Extreme negative fuel trims at idle, bogging accel at cruising speeds
Stuck open EGR.
"an open mind let's knowledge flow in and wisdom flow out for a man who has neither never listens to those who have both".
Being wrong doesn't bother me, it's being right and not understanding why that does
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- Badrummer2112
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4 years 1 month ago #51040
by Badrummer2112
Replied by Badrummer2112 on topic Extreme negative fuel trims at idle, bogging accel at cruising speeds
The d16y8 doesn't have an EGR valve as far as I know.
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- jreardon
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4 years 1 month ago #51046
by jreardon
Replied by jreardon on topic Extreme negative fuel trims at idle, bogging accel at cruising speeds
What's coolant temperature? What's the running vacuum? Smell the dipstick for fuel. Pull the brake booster hose and make sure the o2 is capable of getting pulled low. What does the o2 volts drop to when you're in decel fuel cut off (injectors shut off during braking). If it doesn't go low, then fuel is some how getting burned. Check your regulator vacuum hose for fuel leakage. I know you replaced it but doesn't hurt to check any way. Check fuel pressure too, there could be a restriction downstream of the return line maybe, so a new regulator won't fix that. Block off the PCV too and see if the trims change.
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4 years 1 month ago #51047
by jreardon
Replied by jreardon on topic Extreme negative fuel trims at idle, bogging accel at cruising speeds
Pinch the vacuum hose going to the regulator, no need to remove it, and see if trims correct.
For restricted return possibility try disconnecting the return hose on the regulator. That the one that's not connected to the fuel rail or vacuum. Then attach another hose to collect the fuel into a container. Do that before you start the car, lol.
For restricted return possibility try disconnecting the return hose on the regulator. That the one that's not connected to the fuel rail or vacuum. Then attach another hose to collect the fuel into a container. Do that before you start the car, lol.
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- Badrummer2112
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4 years 4 weeks ago #51529
by Badrummer2112
Replied by Badrummer2112 on topic Extreme negative fuel trims at idle, bogging accel at cruising speeds
Ok had a chance to change the evap purge valve and it helped with fuel trims a bit but still -20. I was doing some visual inspection and found out the harness for the upstream O2 sensor was redone and im wondering if whoever did it, didn't use a shielded wire for the signal wire. Could that cause problems with inaccurately reading the o2 sensor?
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- Tyler
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4 years 4 weeks ago #51530
by Tyler
Replied by Tyler on topic Extreme negative fuel trims at idle, bogging accel at cruising speeds
What's your MAP sensor voltage reading at hot idle with no loads on? Less than 1.0V is what we're looking for. Much more, and I'd start to suspect a valve lash issue.
You stated you're looking at -30% trims at idle, but improve under hard accel. What do they read at 2500 RPM in Park, and during normal cruising? Does the upstream O2 switch, or is it stuck rich? Asking because both the rich trims and the bog match a stuck rich O2, causing a false lean condition.
Can you post a photo of the upstream O2 wiring? To answer your question, no, I doubt that a lack of shielding (as in, RF shielding) would cause your symptoms.
You stated you're looking at -30% trims at idle, but improve under hard accel. What do they read at 2500 RPM in Park, and during normal cruising? Does the upstream O2 switch, or is it stuck rich? Asking because both the rich trims and the bog match a stuck rich O2, causing a false lean condition.
Can you post a photo of the upstream O2 wiring? To answer your question, no, I doubt that a lack of shielding (as in, RF shielding) would cause your symptoms.
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