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Fuel trims bouncing around in diametrically opposed fashion between banks

  • samuel.barajas
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4 years 3 months ago #49833 by samuel.barajas
   Running out of brain cells.. BMW 330i 2005 3.0L, codes P0171 and P0174, slightly rough idle, trims go always in the opposite direction between banks, it maxes out at +/-25 then begin to rise / fall in the opposite direction of each other. So far have checked for swapped O2 connectors, exhaust restriction and timing issue with a pressure transducer connected to the oscilloscope, did a propane spray test to verify that O2 sensors are reading ok, i dont know what else can cause this type of behavior. Appreciate any kind of input. Greetings from Mexico.

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4 years 3 months ago - 4 years 3 months ago #49837 by samuel.barajas
So i ran the pressure transducer test again, this time with the car running, not just cranking, and got this ...(the red trace is the spark trigger for that cylinder)
 

There seems to be pressure build up in the exhaust stroke, could this be it ?

Also, why do my graphing looks like that ? is it some settings im not choosing properly or is it due to the capabilities of my scope?
 
Last edit: 4 years 3 months ago by samuel.barajas. Reason: image

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4 years 3 months ago #49840 by Wightscope
I assume you are using a 2204A scope?  There should be no issues with it collecting a much better waveform than that - take a look at "Mechanic Mindset" on youtube for some hints on setting it up and working round it's limitations.
The pressure waveform issue looks to be with your sensor - if you are using a home made sensor on a traditional compression kit have you removed the schraeder valve from the tube ?
For example this is a 2204A with a home made sensor. - extra channel is just an inverted maths channel for the coil.
 
 
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4 years 3 months ago #49843 by juergen.scholl
It looks like the sampling rate of your very sensor is much too low, hence the chopped waveform. Did you use this sensor on other cars and if so, what was the outcome?

An expert is someone who knows each time more on each time less, until he finally knows absolutely everything about absolutely nothing.

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4 years 3 months ago #49850 by samuel.barajas
Right on with 2204a scope, it encourages me to see that it can do WAY better waveforms, i will definitely be checking that channel, i did take the schrader valve off, im using a home made pressure transducer sensor as recommended by this guy 
... 

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4 years 3 months ago #49853 by samuel.barajas
    I think you might be right with the sampling rate of my sensor, heres the cranking waveform
 

There doesn´t seem to be any pressure build up, but again this is just cranking, in my running waveform there is something going on that is very consistent with the exhaust stroke, i just dont know if it could be enough to cause this... I  am fairly new with this tools but have already used my current setup to succesfully identify timing issues.

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4 years 3 months ago #49856 by samuel.barajas
Where did you got your sensor from and what are you using for the amp ramp ?

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4 years 3 months ago - 4 years 3 months ago #49857 by Wightscope
ebay for the sensor, best to get the 10 bar absolute one if you can find it (as mentioned in Gadgets playlist) - then you can do down to a full vacuum as well, plus it is 12v.
I have quite a few and never had any issues like yours. Not an amp clamp it's a secondary ignition pick up, Hantek do a good value one.
Last edit: 4 years 3 months ago by Wightscope.
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  • juergen.scholl
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4 years 3 months ago #49867 by juergen.scholl
A cranking waveform will show HIGHER pressure than one of an idling engine will do.

The way your waveforms are they do not have diagnostic value, it is impossible to conclude problems from them regarding the exhaust stroke (or valve opening, sealing etc.).

A lot of the e-bay sensors are not up to the task, even when they specify an update rate of ≤1ms. They don't comply.

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4 years 3 months ago #49885 by jreardon

trims go always in the opposite direction between banks, it maxes out at +/-25 then begin to rise / fall in the opposite direction of each other. 

You're saying the banks are flip flopping in trims? What triggers the flip? Is it going into and out of open loop or something?

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