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Fuel Pump Current Ramp Waveform - bad pump?
3 years 5 months ago #44793
by Smeter12
Fuel Pump Current Ramp Waveform - bad pump? was created by Smeter12
Hello,
Background Info
- 1995 Jaguar XJS convertible 4.0L inline 6
- 2 issues:
a) upon initial start up, engine runs smooth for about 15 seconds and then runs rough. Have an EGR code (don't remember the code at the time of writing this post), but likely this is reason for rough idle
b) looses power when at WOT
Please see attached pic of current ramping the fuel pump
- I zoomed the picture out 8x in an effort to establish a pattern
- I've establish the following from the attached pic
- pump has 8 commutators
- highest amperage reading is 6.1 amps and lowest is 4.7 amps
- based on cursor 1 and cursor 2 positions, 1 full revolution of the pump is 9.5 ms
- pump's speed = 60,000 / 9.5ms = 6,316 rpm
My thoughts on the health of the pump
- pump is okay (not great) because it has a decent speed (i.e. 6,316 rpm), however, I think the pump is starting to fail because of the uneven hills (not all hills reach 6.1 amps) and valleys (not all valleys reach the low of 4.7 amps).
Today's $2.00 question - can I determine that my WOT problem is from the pump based on this waveform? Or, do I need to get into the trenches and test fuel pressure at idle and WOT with a gauge. (FYI - Jaguar in all of their wisdom / trying to force people to take it to a Jaguar dealer, did not design this fuel system with a schrader test port)?
As always - thoughts appreciated and thank in advance
Background Info
- 1995 Jaguar XJS convertible 4.0L inline 6
- 2 issues:
a) upon initial start up, engine runs smooth for about 15 seconds and then runs rough. Have an EGR code (don't remember the code at the time of writing this post), but likely this is reason for rough idle
b) looses power when at WOT
Please see attached pic of current ramping the fuel pump
- I zoomed the picture out 8x in an effort to establish a pattern
- I've establish the following from the attached pic
- pump has 8 commutators
- highest amperage reading is 6.1 amps and lowest is 4.7 amps
- based on cursor 1 and cursor 2 positions, 1 full revolution of the pump is 9.5 ms
- pump's speed = 60,000 / 9.5ms = 6,316 rpm
My thoughts on the health of the pump
- pump is okay (not great) because it has a decent speed (i.e. 6,316 rpm), however, I think the pump is starting to fail because of the uneven hills (not all hills reach 6.1 amps) and valleys (not all valleys reach the low of 4.7 amps).
Today's $2.00 question - can I determine that my WOT problem is from the pump based on this waveform? Or, do I need to get into the trenches and test fuel pressure at idle and WOT with a gauge. (FYI - Jaguar in all of their wisdom / trying to force people to take it to a Jaguar dealer, did not design this fuel system with a schrader test port)?
As always - thoughts appreciated and thank in advance
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3 years 5 months ago #44794
by Andy.MacFadyen
" We're trying to plug a hole in the universe, what are you doing ?. "
(Walter Bishop Fringe TV show)
Replied by Andy.MacFadyen on topic Fuel Pump Current Ramp Waveform - bad pump?
Jaguar XKS ---- not worked on a 99 MY USA model but Jaguar usually put the fuel filter in a really accesible place in the spare wheel well easy enough to either T in or measure the dead head pressure.
" We're trying to plug a hole in the universe, what are you doing ?. "
(Walter Bishop Fringe TV show)
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3 years 5 months ago - 3 years 5 months ago #44795
by Noah
"Ground cannot be checked with a 10mm socket"
Replied by Noah on topic Fuel Pump Current Ramp Waveform - bad pump?
95 might make it hard, but if you have scan data you can watch the o2s during a wide open throttle pull.
If the pump is healthy enough, the o2s should report rich @ wot.
If the pump is healthy enough, the o2s should report rich @ wot.
"Ground cannot be checked with a 10mm socket"
Last edit: 3 years 5 months ago by Noah.
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3 years 5 months ago #44797
by Paul P.
Never stop Learning.
Replied by Paul P. on topic Fuel Pump Current Ramp Waveform - bad pump?
To answer your $2.00 question.
IMO, the amperage of the pump is low.
But use your Load PIDS from scan data to give you direction first.
On a WOT run, if your Absolute Load and Calculated Load are high, and you have Fuel TRIM (POS in your case I would think), you've got a fuel delivery issue.
IF the Load Pids are low, coupled with Fuel trim your looking at an air issue.
A good engine has High Load pids and no trim at all operating ranges of the engine.
Low Load and NO TRIM, the engine truly has a pumping problem
IMO, the amperage of the pump is low.
But use your Load PIDS from scan data to give you direction first.
On a WOT run, if your Absolute Load and Calculated Load are high, and you have Fuel TRIM (POS in your case I would think), you've got a fuel delivery issue.
IF the Load Pids are low, coupled with Fuel trim your looking at an air issue.
A good engine has High Load pids and no trim at all operating ranges of the engine.
Low Load and NO TRIM, the engine truly has a pumping problem
Never stop Learning.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Noah
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3 years 5 months ago #44800
by Matt T
RPM also looks high. Might be normal for that pump or could be due to low pressure. Would be interesting to dead head the pump and see if that changed amps or RPM.
Agreed scan data would be the better way to go if it's available.
Replied by Matt T on topic Fuel Pump Current Ramp Waveform - bad pump?
Weycraze wrote: IMO, the amperage of the pump is low.
RPM also looks high. Might be normal for that pump or could be due to low pressure. Would be interesting to dead head the pump and see if that changed amps or RPM.
Agreed scan data would be the better way to go if it's available.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Paul P.
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3 years 4 months ago #44900
by guafa
Replied by guafa on topic Fuel Pump Current Ramp Waveform - bad pump?
Hi everyone.
Lack of power could be also related to EGR leakage.
EGR valve is suppose to be closed at idle (to keep a smooth one) and at wot (to not reduce total power).
Lack of power could be also related to EGR leakage.
EGR valve is suppose to be closed at idle (to keep a smooth one) and at wot (to not reduce total power).
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