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Opel fuel trims is Fixed

  • spit64
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5 years 2 months ago #45953 by spit64
Replied by spit64 on topic Opel fuel trims
I have the amp clamp on a connector close to the fuel rail called X63 on my wiring diagram. I also have the one in your picture but what I understand the one I am using seems more accurate.

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5 years 2 months ago #45973 by spit64
Replied by spit64 on topic Opel fuel trims
The code has been cleared many times and it is always cylinder 4 that gets flagged in freeze-frame but the first code that shows up is P0300 Random misfire then cylinder 4

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5 years 2 months ago #46002 by Wightscope
Replied by Wightscope on topic Opel fuel trims
The missfire and lean will be caused by the missing injection event that follows the double injection.
Will be interesting to see what the CMP has to say at the time.
Would Cyl 4 be the first injection event after the ECU sees the ckp/cmp match that tells it where the engine is (TDC on 1?)

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5 years 2 months ago - 5 years 2 months ago #46019 by spit64
Replied by spit64 on topic Opel fuel trims
Tried to share Pico files did not get it to work try again in the morning. How to delete a message?
Last edit: 5 years 2 months ago by spit64.

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5 years 2 months ago #46021 by Wightscope
Replied by Wightscope on topic Opel fuel trims
Not sure about deleting but as a last resort post it on the Pico forum and link it here.
Not as if there is going to be huge traffic for it !
This is your original for example www.picoauto.com/support/download/file.php?id=33572

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5 years 2 months ago - 5 years 2 months ago #46041 by spit64
Replied by spit64 on topic Opel fuel trims
Here is a link to the complete Pico file hopes it work out and if it is it is easy to share others
Push the blue box I think it will be in Swedish the word ladda ner means download

www.dropbox.com/sh/y4bntnjb89sbodk/AADqV...i5h2cHvr1Wn87Za?dl=0
Last edit: 5 years 2 months ago by spit64.

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5 years 2 months ago #46043 by Matt T
Replied by Matt T on topic Opel fuel trims

Wightscope wrote: I note also that about 4 crank revolutions before the event the voltage starts to drop from 14.2v down to 12.24v at the time of the out of turn firing, that could be a clue as it comes first.


It's not just voltage that is dropping. RPM is also getting pulled down. Almost 900 RPM when voltage starts falling on down to under 500 RPM right before the event. Then RPM flares up over 1,300 right after the event. Can also see the injector pulses getting fatter. If this did happen in gear it should've been very noticeable unless the clutch is spanked.....




Also found this after a fuel cut where #4 is the last injector to turn back on. Might be deliberate but there are other fuel cuts where it doesn't happen??

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5 years 2 months ago - 5 years 2 months ago #46059 by spit64
Last edit: 5 years 2 months ago by spit64.

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5 years 2 months ago - 5 years 2 months ago #46065 by Wightscope
Replied by Wightscope on topic Opel fuel trims
Interested to hear other's take on this but in my interpretation , some firings on 2 and most on 4 indicate excessive turbulence in the cylinder.This can be caused by bad atomisation or valve issues, but AFAIK it's usually caused by excessive EGR. This may tie in with the voltage drop on the injector circuit if the EGR solenoid is randomly open and certainly would cause the slowing. I can understand the ECU not firing the injector if it detects a misfire but not sure how that explains the double injector firing.However, if it was EGR I would expect to see it evenly across the cylinders - though it maybe and it's just that Cyl 4 has the weaker coil - I note that the peak was 400v on your scope earlier but Cyl 4 is showing only 240v Next step for me would be to amp clamp the EGR solenoid supply during an event, also check that the position sensor is making sense as it could be under reading.
Last edit: 5 years 2 months ago by Wightscope.

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5 years 2 months ago #46066 by spit64
Replied by spit64 on topic Opel fuel trims
Maybe to much waveforms but here is without any faults when driving. I think I am on cyl 4 ignition I am only follow wiring diagram but have no way to sync this when it is an ignition cassette .
www.dropbox.com/s/yiya4ie1cul51wt/3.psdata?dl=0
www.dropbox.com/s/8yi8j5i11yd8t4l/Opel_i...4%20good.psdata?dl=0

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5 years 2 months ago #46067 by Wightscope
Replied by Wightscope on topic Opel fuel trims
Well that all looks good to me.
I'm having scope withdrawal so happy to look at your waveforms!
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5 years 2 months ago #46144 by spit64
Replied by spit64 on topic Opel fuel trims
More Pico files I captured some data under misfire cyl 4 ignition and cam sensor, it is interesting one file big spikes on the cam signal from what I think is ignition could that cause the injector fire in the wrong moment, also when it misfires after restarting no problem strange. Too bad, it is not easy to move probes to injectors but I try tomorrow again scope injectors, I will do a battery test with Pick in the evening we have a snowstorm just now so it is a little difficult.
www.dropbox.com/s/0tl3iha3t67iipb/cam%20...0cyl%204.psdata?dl=0
www.dropbox.com/s/eni28qtgdrfmisu/cam_cyl%204%20ign.psdata?dl=0
www.dropbox.com/s/jyf0ivcxwk3xzur/under%20misfire.psdata?dl=0
www.dropbox.com/s/mduyhb5sc21kdbr/after%...0misfire.psdata?dl=0

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5 years 2 months ago - 5 years 2 months ago #46147 by Wightscope
Replied by Wightscope on topic Opel fuel trims
Crikey!
Well to state the obvious the primary or secondary voltage is leaking into the 5v ref, this is spiking the cam sensor - at some points off the +/-10v scale so no wonder the ECU is confused as to where it is.
There is also a 300-500mv ripple on the 5v ref at 30-180kHz, which I think is too high to be a solenoid or alternator.
You mentioned the cassette had been replaced - is it genuine and do you have the original. I am wondering if the actual problem was the CKP sensor that you replaced and this is an induced problem.
I notice that the primary spike is dropping from 350 to 250v which indicates a short and the cam sensor voltage spikes as the coil discharges across the plug. You can see when misfiring that the same but much smaller spikes happen in the 5v ref when the other plugs fire. Take a look at the plug in 4 as well, even when not misfiring I can see the spark escaping, maybe swap the plug over.

I don't know the arrangement of the engine but look for anywhere the 5v ref and primary/secondary are in close contact - ECU plug, a 5v wire clipped to the top of the coil pack for example. Is Cyl 4 next to the cam sensor by any chance? Also it maybe 5v to something only switched on at certain times

Under misfire CMP at +/- 10V! looks like it causes an extra firing


No misfire but spark escaping
Last edit: 5 years 2 months ago by Wightscope.

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5 years 2 months ago - 5 years 2 months ago #46148 by Wightscope
Replied by Wightscope on topic Opel fuel trims
If you want to check the synch you can stick a coin on top of the cassette over where the coil should be and put your probe on it (with an attenuator just in case) you should pick up the secondary enough for a synch. Don't connect the earth.

Demo :


HOWEVER - as you may have a coil leak I would wrap that coin in some rubber or layers of electrical tape just in case there is a crack in the insulation
Last edit: 5 years 2 months ago by Wightscope.
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5 years 2 months ago #46154 by spit64
Replied by spit64 on topic Opel fuel trims
I don't know if it is the original coil pack but I doubt it because I guess that is no 1 item when people troubleshoot and repair they change it is easy.
It is an NGK coil pack and the owner bought an NGK coil pack but with the same problem I switched to the old one but I think the new one was never tested after a new crank sensor.
This is a picture of the ground wire to the coil pack the owner of the car or the dealership did this repair it was not a nice one and it did a loop around the other wires you never know if that could interfere with it is a picture before and after repair.
Attachments:

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5 years 2 months ago - 5 years 2 months ago #46175 by spit64
Replied by spit64 on topic Opel fuel trims
Now the computer shot down the number four injector that's why the problem goes away when restarting the engine, there is no more double firing of the injector driving around for a great amount of time. I also have primary and secondary with ignition probe taken at startup in a warm garage.
www.dropbox.com/s/490g18aed3uzn4s/shotdown.psdata?dl=0
www.dropbox.com/s/y6kavbw2r7x482r/opel%2...0cyl%204.psdata?dl=0
Last edit: 5 years 2 months ago by spit64.

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5 years 2 months ago #46176 by Wightscope
Replied by Wightscope on topic Opel fuel trims
Can't see much from the secondary, but it's the same as the primary anyway.

Pull the pack and take a look for carbon tracking on the plug or inside the boot.
Good idea to switch the pack back now you have fixed the crank sensor, if that does not fix it then maybe switch the plugs around and see if the problem moves.
That spark is going somewhere as you can see by the waveform. The leakage leaks into the 5v ref on the cam, confuses the ECU about where it is in the firing cycle causing the injector to fire twice.
At least that's the theory so far. Fix the spark leakage and you will have fixed it. Probably!

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5 years 1 month ago #46552 by spit64
Replied by spit64 on topic Opel fuel trims
Changed the coil pack and new spark plugs to NGK also bought a used fuel injector and put it on cyl 2 and the cylinder 2 injector on cylinder 4 where the scanner detected the misfire. Also checked the fuel pressure 52 psi at idle and with a snap, it stayed the same.
Fuel trim first before engine warm-up great at idle and showed correction at cruising at 2200 rpm long term 17 short term -15 warm engine longterm 20 and short-term 12 total +30 but is with steady throttle around 2000 rpm if I accelerate the fuel trim is 0 and also at idle. It is only steady throttle 50 mph
MAP sensor is around 2 volts at partial load 200 rpm. 02 sensor working. No code so far or check engine light.
www.dropbox.com/s/6mgtnzll7mo7i0z/fuel%20pressure.mp4?dl=0

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5 years 1 month ago #46584 by spit64
Replied by spit64 on topic Opel fuel trims
If there is no problem at idle, I guess no vacuum leak and no problem giving full throttle it could not be fuel or restricted fuel injector, so it must be an input problem. An EGR fault would provide different symptoms. Also, PCV will give bad idle. TPS sensor? MAP sensor at 2.5 volts around 200 rpm seems ok. This is my thought process. I have an old Audi (1988) with almost the same problem but more noticeable you could feel the car miss easy no fishbite the fuel pump took care of the problem.

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5 years 1 month ago #46588 by Wightscope
Replied by Wightscope on topic Opel fuel trims
Re-scope the cam sensor and see if the signal is now clean. Maybe look at another 5v ref as well.

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