Help us help you. By posting the year, make, model and engine near the beginning of your help request, followed by the symptoms (no start, high idle, misfire etc.) Along with any prevalent Diagnostic Trouble Codes, aka DTCs, other forum members will be able to help you get to a solution more quickly and easily!
2005 Dodge Caravan SXT 3.3L.
Was driving fine, no indication of any problems. Went to go to the store and she would not start!! From watching some of your videos , she is a crank / no start. At first, I was told the fuel pump. When the guy came back to put a new one on the van, I was then told , ( after checking for spark and fuel pressure) there was no power to the injectors and that was from a (DEAD/ BAD COMPUTER).. What I'm having GREAT TROUBLE with is. She will start if you give her a fuel source but shuts right off . AM I OUT OF MY MIND ??? Will she start with a fuel source if the COMPUTER is BAD ??? Could it be a short in the harness somewhere?? I am not electronically savvy, but it seems that if it where the computer gone bad I would of received some type of codes. ( I have a thing on my car the sends information / codes to my phone if something is wrong or it is stolen. It is from T-Mobile it's called SyncUP Drive..)The only code that my phone received was caused by the guy trouble shooting my van. I bought a online book from Haynes for the wiring harness diagram and it doesn't show what I see on your videos. I can not find a place as of yet where to get this information from. I would greatly appreciate your advice. Do you have a videos on this model of car? I am not a mechanic by no means , but I can follow direction pretty good. This is our only car, equipped with my husband wheelchair lift in it. Thank you for taking the time to read this and hopefully advise me on where to find the diagram on her and what to do.. Have a Blessed Day !!! Elly Bressnen
Not too sure I trust the diag of a shop that wants to wing a pump and then come back and say no power to injectors and then wing an ECM at it.
Your fuel injectors get their power from fuse #16 (25A) in the underhood fuse panel and through the ASD relay. Check that fuse first, if it's good then check for power at the ignition coil if it's easy to get to, then after that check power to an injector. All of these share a common power off of the ASD relay, so if you have power there then your ASD relay is working fine and your problem would be on the control side of the circuit.
If no power to coil or injector check to see if the relay is turning on.
Thank you for you input... I agree with not trusting the diagnose , hence, why I am inquiring about this. I am not a MECHANIC by NO MEANS ... So with that being said , this may be a stupid question but how do I find out if the relay is turning on? I'm working with a test light and a voltage meter.The van is dead in the yard. The person that was working on it took the PCM out .There is spark to the plugs. No power to the injectors ( we were told)... I have been trying to find the ADS relay diagram so I can check for a short somewhere in the harness to the PCM.. Can you tell me more about the control side of the circuit ?? Is this referring to the PCM?
Could it be a short in the harness on this side? Again THANK YOU SO MUCH.. I am learning something new for a 56 year women...lol I guess your never to old to learn..LOL
My steps to take:
1. Put the PCM back in the van.
2. Check the ADS relay # 16 (25A)
3. Check for power at the injectors
4. If no power there, check to see if the relay is coming on.
Does this sound like a plan of attach.. Thank you so very much for you time..Peaches
It's always tough not trusting a shop with their work. No idea why they'd have already taken the ECM out.
Well if you have spark then the ASD relay looks to be getting powered up, but just to be sure unplug the coil and check voltage on pin 2 (Brown wire with a white tracer) to make sure you've got battery voltage there. After that, unplug an injector and check voltage on the brown wire with a white tracer and you should see the same voltage as the reading from the coil. If you do not have voltage there then there may be a break in the wire to the injectors, if you do then there may be an issue with the control side of the injectors, but we'll get to that after knowing the voltages.
With your make model of van the asd (auto shutdown relay) should be integrated into the tipm (totally integrated power module) aka the fusebox under hood. Which is not easily removable. It can be done but you will need to order the relay which you can find online using the part number on the relay. Then have the relay unsoldered and install new one and resolder it. Just fyi if no power to injectors this is what you would be looking at as the tipm's are backordered and may take a while to get.
I'm not sure either, but know I left to figure it out... I can't check anything as of yet . It is rain here in Florida.. Sorry for all the question but this is the only thing I know to do to figure this out.
If the PCM is bad , Will she start with a fuel source ?
Can you send me a diagram of these areas in question, that you want me to check. I have a online Haynes manual but it I'm still trying to find what I need in it. Thank you again.. Peaches
If the injector drivers in the PCM went bad, then it could keep the injectors from firing, but there are a few things to check to make sure that's the case.
The diagram below is pretty much the entirety of the injector/ignition coil circuit. They get all their power from the ASD relay and the PCM controls the ground side of the circuit. It starts at the top right with the fuse, then goes through the relay to the injectors and relay coil. The PCM turns the relay on, and if the relay is good those components will get power. And generally if the ASD relay was bad or not turning on when commanded it would set a code.
Thank you Donut!!
I will get on this in the morning. Church is fixing to go live @ 7p.m. I will do my best to put the PCM back in the van and follow your instructions.. First things first..
1. put PCM in van
2. check Fuse #16 (25A) if good
Thank you so much for your help.. You have a Blessed rest of your night!!
Puzzled you say is running if you give it fuel but there is no spark at the plugs ??????? ---- is Eezi start you are spraying in ? in which that is possible
I don't know these vehicles we don't really see them over here but with Chrysler products with this kind of issue it tends to be either the TIPM or the ground wires for the TIPM which ground low down in behind the head lamp..
" We're trying to plug a hole in the universe, what are you doing ?. "
(Walter Bishop Fringe TV show)
Mitchel DIY is a good source of information, diagrams, troubleshooting. Goes more in depth than Haynes. If you're planning on keeping the vehicle long term then there's a multi year option as well which isn't that much more than the one or two year option I think it is.
@ Andy if she had a scan tool couldn't she check for rpm's when cranking to make sure the computer is getting the rpm from the crank signal? Haven't did this method in a long while but remember it in some videos & other Vids on the Ol' YouTube videos I've seen out there from Paul, Eric O, Bernie, "G" from TST & a few others as well.
Maybe test for signal presence or does this system in this video operate differently?
To the original poster don't give up! Giving up is accepting what little information you're given , what you've found when there's truly a solution.
There has to be some shops, facilities around that'll help someone in need especially since you need the vehicle for your husband given his immobility condition.
I don't know of any YouTube guys that produce good videos in Florida. There's one guy who comes to mind but I don't know his complete skill set. His YouTube channel name is " Samcrac " if I remember properly. Maybe reach out to him and see if he may know something unless you get it figured out first.
I know there's "Pay it Forward" groups on Facebook but finding someone who knows what they're doing can be tough at times......
Peaches wrote: Can you send me a diagram of these areas in question
"Knowledge is a weapon. Arm yourself, well, before going to do battle."
"Understanding a question is half an answer." I have learned more by being wrong, than I have by being right.
Thank you Chad, for the diagram... and Thank you everyone who has taken time to read this and respond... Donut I'm put the PCM back in her.. just a little difficult when I'm not the one that took it out..Never messed with these before.. Wish me luck !!!
Andy.MacFadyen wrote: Puzzled you say is running if you give it fuel but there is no spark at the plugs ??????? ---- is Eezi start you are spraying in ? in which that is possible
Yeah starting fluid can fool ya.
Andy.MacFadyen wrote: I don't know these vehicles we don't really see them over here but with Chrysler products with this kind of issue it tends to be either the TIPM or the ground wires for the TIPM which ground low down in behind the head lamp..
Chrysler started using ASD relays way before they moved them inside the TIPM. And the ASD shown on the wiring diagram Chad posted appears to be plug in, so hopefully the OPs van doesn't have a TIPM.
Just by chance could this have anything to do with the key system on this van. The key doesn't lock or unlock but 1 door (passengers side front ) . We thought it to be the battery and replaced it and still nothing?? Just a FYI... also a little back ground history on her.. in the last 7 years a shop put in new catalytic converter Then we done new fuel pump 5 /6 yrs. In the past 2 to 3 years there has been ckp. cmp and o2 sensor replaced 3 or 4 times. ( o2 sensor just twice). The last ckp sensor took out my starter.. The little metal tip broke of and ended up in the starters , knocking some of the gears.. Replace all of that and she drove good , no sign , no codes, nothing, but now a no start.. That's her history...
Peaches wrote: Thank you Matt T for your input .. But can you tell me what (OPs van) doesn't have a TIPM means??
It means hopefully your van doesn't have one. OP is forum "slang" for the person who started the thread. A TIPM is an "underhood fusebox" with the relays built inside it instead of being replaceable.
You can try using a incandescent test light to test and see if the computer is supplying ground. To do this, you have to probe the control side of one of the wires and then touch it with the test light while clamped on battery positive (important), try to start the car, the test light should flicker if the computer is sending ground to the injectors. **Control wires are those that are different colors for each wire** Power wires are those that are the same colors for each injector.
Switch the test light to battery negative and now probe the positive side and touch it with the incandescent test light, it should illuminate (I believe you have to have the switch in the ON position for the ASD relay to complete the circuit), this means you have good power coming from the ASD relay. If there is no power there then check the fuse 16, if fuse 16 is ok, then the computer may not be completing the circuit for the ASD relay for some reason.
I have attached the screenshot to check the fuses marked for power, they both should have power when trying to start the car after the ASD relay.
aguilarpro wrote: I believe you have to have the switch in the ON position for the ASD relay to complete the circuit
ASDs are controlled the same way as most fuel pump relays. PCM might turn it on for a couple seconds when the key is first turned to Run. After that it only turns on when the PCM detects RPM from the engine. Not understanding how ASDs work might be why someone called the PCM on this van.
I myself did not know why the ASD relay would not work since it was my understanding there are more variables that the PCM detects such as an unsafe sensor that is reporting bad, also if there is an open in the neutral switch (not grounded) would deactivate the ASD? What about a short detected at the airbag module? Thanks for the info on the crank sensor & ASD relay relationship.
