Help us help you. By posting the year, make, model and engine near the beginning of your help request, followed by the symptoms (no start, high idle, misfire etc.) Along with any prevalent Diagnostic Trouble Codes, aka DTCs, other forum members will be able to help you get to a solution more quickly and easily!

Lean codes bank 1 and 2. 2003 Sienna

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3 years 11 months ago #40304 by Flykol6
Waycraze. The propane was entered between the maf and the throttle body. For some reason Stft are positive today. When the propane. Finally hit the o2. The stft went down. The graph looks funny. To me.

I think I posted something from yesturday. if you wonder were that previous post is from. I have not mastered this web forem yet
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3 years 11 months ago - 3 years 11 months ago #40305 by Paul P.
Your LTFT are high at idle, Correct?

With the introduction of excess fuel source, the propane, the immediate response of the STFT would be to go NEG if the O2's are telling the truth. As time passes the LTFT should slowly start trending NEG back to zero.

So if your STFT did indeed start to go neg, That tells me the Wideband is responding to AIR FUEL MIXTURE (AFR) changes. SO, when you are at idle and you need to add excess fuel to correct a fuel trim, there is unmetered air entering the system, ie vacuum leak.

Never stop Learning.
Last edit: 3 years 11 months ago by Paul P..

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3 years 11 months ago #40306 by Flykol6
Waycraze
I sent a message to the scanner app developer. He said sensor 1 and 5 are the O2.
I figured out how to order the data. this chart is the O2 volts Banks 1 and 2 with the Propane added.
I got fancy in MS paint and added comments

Is it Odd the voltage variation high low swings was higher after the propane was added?

Oxygen sensor 1 Wide Range Voltage
Oxygen sensor 5 Wide Range Voltage
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3 years 11 months ago #40307 by Flykol6
Yes, LTFT are high at Idle and reduce toward zero with RPM increases.
I have one thing I want to check.
On the the Air horn snorkel it has
Rubber to throttle body
then connects to hard plastic tube
Rubber to air filter housing
I'm going to take a closer look the connections in between

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3 years 11 months ago #40309 by Paul P.
The chart you just posted is exactly what John wanted to see, both wideband went RICH will propane enrichment. This solidifies that unmetered air is entering the system.

As far as the oddity, I wouldn't make a conclusive statement from that amount of data.

Please check the air tract after the MAF very, very carefully especially for cracking, brittleness.

Never stop Learning.

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3 years 11 months ago #40310 by John Clark
Yeah, that data does indicate a vacuum leak. The data has been all over the map, though. Sometimes it's only one bank which is not usually a vacuum leak.
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3 years 11 months ago #40311 by Cheryl
I’ve been asking to see both front air fuel ratio sensors and rear oxygen sensors all at the same time. One sensor has to be stuck high above 4 volts
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3 years 11 months ago #40312 by Flykol6
Cheryl ,
I've figured out how to get the numbers just today. I'm putting all these together into a file
MAf
TBP
All O2 volts
Speed
RPM
any others you want to see?

The snorkel check was an Ok. it is air tight. I've been pulling air lines to see if makes a difference.

This was odd. I undid a finger sized water line to the throttle body and and very little radiator water came out. A few drips.

thanks for the Help! Mike

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3 years 11 months ago #40313 by Flykol6
Here is a the scanner latest file! Mike
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3 years 11 months ago - 3 years 11 months ago #40314 by Paul P.
Your getting there, add the STFT's and the LTFT, and MAP and BARO.

At a quick glance, this data set is not indicative of a vacuum leak, but MAF readings seem on the low side actually.



According to this Bank 1 is dropping out when it should be going RICH like Bank 2. This would suggest a bank-specific fueling issue.

If possible try and be consistent in collecting data, eg if it's just FT's required at idle then up to high rpm, a simple brake torque will do. When you want to check a fuel pump delivery on a WOT run, low gear, in a safe area, full throttle.

Thanks

Paul

Never stop Learning.
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Last edit: 3 years 11 months ago by Paul P.. Reason: added photo

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3 years 11 months ago #40321 by Flykol6
Update: Read about using soapy water in a spray bottle. Found a leak. Can you believe it ? It’s a vacuum actuator under the throttle cable cam. Not sure what it does. Increase idle or something. Stuck a stick in the hose to plug it off. The long term trim chart changed Alot. Now it Is saw tooth looking
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3 years 11 months ago #40322 by John Clark
It's so difficult to make heads or tails of all these graphs. What's the engine doing during this time? Idle? Driving? It does look improved, though, as I'm not seeing any +50% on the fuel trims.

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3 years 11 months ago #40324 by Flykol6
Everything feels about the same. It always starts and idles well. A little hesitation on acceleration. Now and then. When the Cel goes off I think it runs worse. Might be just in my brain. Today’s Long trims look Lower .
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3 years 11 months ago #40327 by Paul P.
See if you can get the data requested previously. I agree with John those graphs are difficult. Get some good data and ill make some charts we can all analyze!

Never stop Learning.

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3 years 11 months ago - 3 years 11 months ago #40328 by John Clark
Seal up that leak with something better than a stick. Then, plug in your scan tool, with the engine running at idle. What are the long term and short term fuel trim numbers for each bank sitting at... on average...No graphs or big charts full of numbers. Short term numbers will fluctuate more rapidly than long term, that's normal. Just post where they are sitting most of the time. (i.e. idle B1: LT +20 and ST -3.) Post numbers for idle and then the same thing for 3000 rpm.

Normal is generally less than 10% plus or minus. Usually it takes 20% or so on the long term, either plus or minus, to set a code.
Last edit: 3 years 11 months ago by John Clark.

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3 years 11 months ago #40331 by Flykol6
With Leak sealed up. We went to store. 9 miles going 50 mph.
Today everything was going good. Then 5 minutes in the drive. CEl for P0174. The LTFt bank 2 went to 50%. Crazy

the data available is based on what I list in the dashboard screen I create.
I shows PIDs for what I choose in dashboard. There may be Pid's I may be able capture more PIDs by adding items to the dashboard.

Bara and some of the things you ask to see are not in this data file

I have the O2 Volts . LT ST RPM MAP throttle pos


John, I will run the data at Idle and at 3000 after I post this .

Thanks for the Help !
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3 years 11 months ago #40332 by Matt T

Flykol6 wrote: Update: Read about using soapy water in a spray bottle. Found a leak. Can you believe it ? It’s a vacuum actuator under the throttle cable cam. Not sure what it does. Increase idle or something. Stuck a stick in the hose to plug it off. The long term trim chart changed Alot. Now it Is saw tooth looking


That sounds like the throttle opener. What is your idle speed now you've plugged the line?
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3 years 11 months ago #40336 by Flykol6
Matt, no change since plugging throttle opener. Idles great all the time

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3 years 11 months ago #40337 by Flykol6
Matt, no change since plugging throttle opener. Idles great all the time

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3 years 11 months ago #40338 by Flykol6
Matt, no change since plugging throttle opener. Idles great all the time

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