Honda B16A jumped a tooth on intake cam

Hi all, was having a few problems with the car recently, so I checked the cam and crank timing, and when it was at top dead center on the crank the intake cam was off a tooth, I realise it was a mistake I made when putting the engine together, I watched someone on youtube doing it which was use a locking tool between the cams, then push up on the tensioner, but in the Honda manual it says to rotate the engine counter clockwise 3-4 teeth, so what happened was I tensioned the wrong side of the belt, I didn't have time to re-do the whole timing belt today, and my friend noticed I had adjustable cam gears, so I rotated the engine so the cam gear was a tooth the opposite way, then locked the allen key bolts, so it was on time, after that I loosened the tensioner slightly enough to rotate the engine 4 teeth, and tighten it back up. So its tighter on the right side of the belt, and at the top over the cams. The car drives a heck of a lot better now, but it idles poorly, it surges though I have a feeling the idle control valve is no good, I have a honda one to put on spare. When it surges the ignition timing goes crazy, even with the service connector jumped. I think I will have to re-do the whole timing belt thing again, but will this be ok for a short while?

Thanks

Stu

It'll probably be OK for a short while? Just as long as the adjustable cam gears don't move. :silly: If I had to guess, I'd say you've got the intake advanced now. If you were gonna bend valves, they'd be bent by now.

How's the coolant level? Just a quick check to do before changing an idle valve. This generation of Honda will have that characteristic surge with no coolant flowing through the fast idle valve.

Cheers Tyler, I loosened the allen bolts, rotated the cam gear back a tooth so when it spins anti clockwise-direction of rotation it lines up, I think whats happening now is because the tension was messed up from the beginning, it might be going advanced like you say, if you put the car in gear and move the crank till the gears lock, is that a correct way of checking initial tension, to see if the cam gears move out of line? I think I may of been a tooth off and now its tensioned the correct side its pulling it out the other way like i think you are saying.
I may be risking it, but Im going to attempt to take the belt off, and rotate the cam a tooth, as the cam position could still not be inline..zero the gear, then re-tension. Yeah I heard you have to be off 4 teeth or so to bend a valve, and I'm keeping the revs as low are poss at the moment. I think the surge is the tension on the belt pulling the gears out of alignment, as the ignition timing wants to come to base timing, then the surge and ignition timing all over the place. It hesitates, has more power when moving, but as soon as I get to a stop it wants to die on me. It was like that before but only when it was cold, first start in the morning, but wasn't the idle control valve as I tried another one. but the other one is a better idle valve. The coolants ok, I had an oil leak that kept blowing coolant hoses, but been ok since then, but will check it again, thanks

what Im thinking is because its off a tooth, putting it in line with adjustable cam gear will put the lobe in a decent position, but 1 tooth of belt tension a lot to lose
Stu

I'm not familiar with the exact Honda procedure for setting belt timing on this engine. Often times, on these DOHC setups, I find it necessary to have a wrench on the first cam so I can move it one tooth advanced, so when the cam gets turned to it's correct position, the belt is tight between the crank and the cam. Are we describing the same thing? :silly: Sorry if so.

It may also take two people to get everything happy. One person putting the belt on, the other holding the cams in their happy spots until the belt is all the way on. If you're ever in doubt, rotate the crank two revolutions and make sure that all the marks come back to where they should be. That should eliminate the possibility of timing it incorrectly. Do it several times and reset the tensioner if needed, to account for the belt settling onto the sprockets/pulleys.

As a last resort, there's always the 'golf tee' trick. If you still find that you can't get the cams in time, try slipping a golf tee into one of the cam sprocket tooth valleys, right before the belt makes contact with the sprocket. Whichever cam needs adjustment. Turn the engine over by hand so the golf tee gets pulled under the belt, and comes out the other side. Done right, this will cause the timing to jump one tooth on that sprocket only.

Which direction you rotate the engine decides which way the timing jumps. Rotating clockwise or counterclockwise. So, which way advances or retards the timing on a sprocket? I honestly don't remember. :lol: I use this trick just often enough to keep it at the back of my mind, but not often enough to remember the details. Experimentation will be required.

In case it's not obvious, I take no liability for what happens if you use that trick. :lol: It's sketchy, but it's a heck of a lot better than fighting the belt. Check this thread if you're interested. Another user successfully fixed his belt timing.

www.scannerdanner.com/forum/post-your-re....html?start=17#11393

Thanks Tyler, its fixed! What I did was move the adjustable cam back to zero, I turned it around a few times and (should be 4, anyway the lines on the cams matched and the crank, basically I didnt do much, but the other day I released some of the tension off the tensioner bolt spun it 4 teeth and the longest part of the belt was less slack and the top of the cams, so just readjusting the tension was all it needed I get a quarter turn on the belt both sides. Immediately it idled better, no flare ups, the ignition timing was stable, i adjusted the throttle idle screw, after throwing the good idle valve back on, and swung the dizzy, everything warmed up fan comes on, adjusted the idle screw and dizzy, and it was all healthy and spot on. Very happy! Thanks Tyler what you are saying about the one tooth off when tightening the belt is true on the twin cam B series Honda engines, you are right there. Next time I do it I will use your procedure. The car drives perfect now

Nice. Glad to hear it's back to running right!

Thanks Tyler, this has been the same since I did the engine conversion in late May, didn't realise it was down to an improperly tensioned timing belt, or cam belt we call them haha. Well I had my suspicions awhile ago. I went on a 50 mile journey today, all good, nice pull throughout the rev range