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Front windshield wipers that never turn off!!!

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05 Oct 2019 01:48 #34019 by johnathon.balderas
Front windshield wipers that never turn off!!! was created by johnathon.balderas
Hello Scannerdanner community I have a problem child of a car that's kicking my rear. It's a 1998 Plymouth Voyager (Dodge Caravan) that has front windshield wipers that never turn off. Once the key is turned to the run position the wipers turn on and never turn off (so far). The only way I can shut them off is by turning the key off, unplugging the relay or unplugging the connector for the wiper motor/module. The wiper module is controlled by the BCM and the main inputs to the BCM are the wiper switch and the wiper park sense switch which is integrated in the wiper module. The way the circuit works it seems is the park switch is actuated when the wiper arms move to the rest position (park). The switch grounds the sense input to the BCM so it knows when to turn the wipers off in conjunction with turning off the wiper switch (multi-function). So my issue is I don't know whats faulty the BCM or the wiper module. The wiper park switch seems to be working properly because its pulling the sense circuit to ground when the wipers go to their default position. Now i was concerned with wiring back to the BCM from the switch but i noticed what seems like a bias voltage on that input when it's not being grounded. So if that voltage is present even when isolated from the switch then to me it is obvious that the wiring is fine because that voltage is being sent from the BCM. I did notice the voltage I'm seeing on that circuit is 4.5 volts roughly so I'm not sure if thats what I should be seeing. I'm kind of lost guys and any direction or help is appreciated. I'm going to attach pics of the circuit. Oh and I did pull codes from the BCM and i got a code that says wiper park switch fault. It's a strange code because it doesn't have any numbers in front of it. I'm assuming that's due to the car being so old and Obd2 systems were still in their infancy stage. Thank You and I am truly greatful for this community.

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05 Oct 2019 02:50 #34022 by ptebo1
found a case # similar to yours on chrysler OEM website here it is
Case Number 999924003
Vehicle Issue Wipers run all the time=>Repair short to ground in the washer circuit.;Which wiper/washer system has problem? >> front In what area is the electrical problem? >> Wiper/washer system What is the problem with the wipers/washer? >> wont turn off With the DRBIII can you see the wiper switch input to the BCM? >> YES If you unplug the washer switch do the wipers quit? >> NO Does the washer switch show closed? >> YES Does the voltage change from approx 0-4 volts when moving the wiper switch from off to low in steps? >> YES
System or Component Stuck;Customer Concern (No DTCs);Wiper / Washer System
Recommendation Repair the washer switch wire for a short to ground.
Modification Date null

Me again =D .. Im not sure I follow this exactly but to me, this seems like it is a tip to focus on the washer portion of the circuit maybe? So my suggestion @ this point would be to find the washer switch data pid and see if it shows closed or open??

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05 Oct 2019 02:56 #34023 by ptebo1
ALSO! I dont believe you have a failed park switch... based on this article off chryslers OE website

FAILED PARK SWITCH

If the wiper park switch has failed the windshield wipers will operate as follows:

SWITCH OFF - Wipers stop in current location regardless of the park signal.

INTERMITTENT MODE - Wipers operate at low speed for one or more extra wipes or continuously.

LOW SPEED - Wipers operate at low speed.

HIGH SPEED - Wipers operate at high speed.

PULSE WIPE - Wipers will not operate.

WIPE AFTER WASH - Wipers operate at low speed in any mode setting. Wipers operate only while wash button is depressed with switch in OFF mode, wipers stop in mid-cycle when button is released.

The windshield wiper park switch and circuit is monitored by the BCM. The park switch and circuit can be tested using the Wiper System Diagnosis table.

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05 Oct 2019 05:48 - 05 Oct 2019 13:53 #34026 by BrandonF
Replied by BrandonF on topic Front windshield wipers that never turn off!!!
Never went at this issue with a caravan, voy, t/c..... but I do tend to the see a lot of CTS's with this similar issue. In that vehicle the input is not through the bcm however. In this case, with the motor/module being one, I like to eliminate the signals to the module. On the CTS's, I'll just quickly depin (instead of cut) the 2 input signals from the switch to the module. On these "piles", she will short to power on the signal inside of the module.....they'll run all dang day. Also, Does she have an accessible relay? Or is this an "early" TIPM style w/ internal relays? Does the BCM supply the ground to the control side of the wiper relay in this case? Kick her in the rear brother.....your gonna get her figured out.
Last edit: 05 Oct 2019 13:53 by BrandonF.

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05 Oct 2019 11:50 #34036 by johnathon.balderas
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05 Oct 2019 13:08 #34037 by johnathon.balderas
Replied by johnathon.balderas on topic Front windshield wipers that never turn off!!!
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06 Oct 2019 15:28 #34053 by Noah
I've fixed two Dodge Neons that did that. Both had bad grounds on the top of the radiator support.

"Learn, apply, repeat."
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07 Oct 2019 12:04 #34067 by johnathon.balderas
Replied by johnathon.balderas on topic Front windshield wipers that never turn off!!!
that fixed wipers that never turned off?

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07 Oct 2019 18:20 #34070 by Noah

johnathon.balderas wrote: that fixed wipers that never turned off?

twice

"Learn, apply, repeat."

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08 Oct 2019 07:02 - 08 Oct 2019 07:05 #34076 by BrandonF
Replied by BrandonF on topic Front windshield wipers that never turn off!!!
Because the BCM supplies the ground on the control side of the relay? And she freaks momentarily when "re-energized" so to speak, in turn activating the circuits in which she controls?

Ahhhhh.... correction, shes grounding the wiper module in this case?
Last edit: 08 Oct 2019 07:05 by BrandonF.

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08 Oct 2019 23:43 #34092 by johnathon.balderas
Replied by johnathon.balderas on topic Front windshield wipers that never turn off!!!
For some reason when I isolated the wiper park switch from the BCM the wipers operated normally the only thing they didn't do is obviously park at the bottom of the windshield. When you turned off the wiper switch they shut off but in what ever position they were in.

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09 Oct 2019 14:05 #34119 by johnathon.balderas
Replied by johnathon.balderas on topic Front windshield wipers that never turn off!!!
Thank you everybody for your help the car got canceled because I couldn't pinpoint this issue with 100% confidence. I was very humbled by this car and I will definitely remember this car and it's symptoms for the future. Thank you and I appreciate your help.
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10 Oct 2019 07:23 #34142 by Noah
Sorry you didn't get it nailed down, looked like you were making progress...

I wish I could have been more help.
Truth be told, I fixed those Neons years before I got serious about learning automotive circuitry. I'll admit I got lucky with a visual inspection!

The first one was hit in the nose and got a radiator support and paint job.
The body guy thought the car was haunted, lol. I opened the hood and said "well that's a lot of blue paint!", popped off the ground, sanded off some paint and looked like a hero!
The next one I saw doing that, I went right for that ground.

Now that I've got some education I should pull a diagram and try to figure the "why".

My best educated guess is that the PCM or some vital key on component was missing that ground and found one via back feed through the wiper/washer circuit.

Kind of like when you energize a relay with a test light and sometimes the test light lights up and the relay clicks.

"Learn, apply, repeat."

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