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2.2 Ecotec Crank no Start no Spark

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22 Sep 2019 11:57 - 22 Sep 2019 12:28 #33766 by shuttlrep
2.2 Ecotec Crank no Start no Spark was created by shuttlrep
Hello
I have a 2000 Saturn LS1 Base 2.2 4cl
Intermittent Crank no start turned to permanent Crank no start, I have no spark.
Plugs are wet with fuel. If have checked all the fuses.
I flipped the entire coil housing over connected the plugs, grounding the threaded parts to the engine, cranked it no plugs fired.
I do hear the fuel pump working. I removed the fuel valve stem and collected gas for a quality check cycling the key, strong flow clean gas.
I have changed limited inexpensive parts, Crank position sensor MAP sensor and the Ignition control module.
Climate is mild here all connections/contact points seem very good, I unplugged the BCM checked pins and the circuit board no apparent problems, no visible problems at the PCM therefore I did not disconnect it.

I tested for compression all four cylinders have a reading of just over 100 lbs
I had previously attempted to video record the dash lights during no start, but it started. Video from the actual start shows no changes in the cluster lighting from a start to this no start condition.
Only the 6 cylinder model from this year has the security lock feature.
After reviewing many videos I believe this car should at least spark without computer control even if it dies immediately ? It does not.

Irrelevant history: Previously I did need and change a burned up 02 sensor, I did start receiving an Air Bag light that seems to go off jiggling the seat wires. Stereo and stereo fuses have been removed

What do I do next? I have a led test light and a standard volt ohm meter.
I am consulting with you guys prior to taking it to a mechanic.
Last edit: 22 Sep 2019 12:28 by shuttlrep.

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23 Sep 2019 05:03 #33798 by jreardon
Replied by jreardon on topic 2.2 Ecotec Crank no Start no Spark
Check for coil control - test light to battery positive and touch on the coil control wires during cranking.

imgur.com/a/zzKj6DN
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23 Sep 2019 14:17 - 23 Sep 2019 14:41 #33805 by shuttlrep
Replied by shuttlrep on topic 2.2 Ecotec Crank no Start no Spark
OK I'm on it
Update, this probably never happens only to me but I will find this Key, and I will perform this test.
I promise. then ill be back
Last edit: 23 Sep 2019 14:41 by shuttlrep. Reason: instant update

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23 Sep 2019 15:22 - 23 Sep 2019 15:25 #33808 by shuttlrep
Replied by shuttlrep on topic 2.2 Ecotec Crank no Start no Spark
I did connect the battery hot to the coil and I do not see the light do anything as I turned the key. I touched it to the block and the light did work.
Last edit: 23 Sep 2019 15:25 by shuttlrep.

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23 Sep 2019 15:23 #33809 by shuttlrep
Replied by shuttlrep on topic 2.2 Ecotec Crank no Start no Spark
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23 Sep 2019 15:40 - 23 Sep 2019 15:41 #33810 by shuttlrep
Replied by shuttlrep on topic 2.2 Ecotec Crank no Start no Spark
I am sorry I read wrong but here I did connect to the control module as instructed still no blinking of the light when I turn the motor over but the light test good on the block.
The other control wire is the same. there is current to that center pin with the key on.
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Last edit: 23 Sep 2019 15:41 by shuttlrep.

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23 Sep 2019 15:56 #33811 by shuttlrep
Replied by shuttlrep on topic 2.2 Ecotec Crank no Start no Spark
Looks like the clip is touching the block but its up off there resting on the oil cap.

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23 Sep 2019 18:55 - 23 Sep 2019 19:03 #33819 by Chad
Replied by Chad on topic 2.2 Ecotec Crank no Start no Spark

File Attachment:

File Name: 2.2EcotecE...gram.pdf
File Size:825 KB



File Attachment:

File Name: 2.2EcotecICM.pdf
File Size:135 KB

"Knowledge is a weapon. Arm yourself, well, before going to do battle."
"Understanding a question is half an answer."
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Last edit: 23 Sep 2019 19:03 by Chad.
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24 Sep 2019 00:38 #33830 by jreardon
Replied by jreardon on topic 2.2 Ecotec Crank no Start no Spark
Assuming injectors are being controlled that suggests the CKP signal is getting to the PCM, through the ICM. That suggests the CKP signal is fine.

Doesn't hurt to check anyway - test light to bat+ and on an injector control wire while cranking.

Confirm power and grounds to ignition module:
1.) voltage drop while cranking (dc meter to bat+ and pink wire at ICM; close to 0 volts reading is ideal while cranking)
2.) substituted load test with headlight bulb(s) (ICM fed by 10a fuse so something around that amperage) between pink and black wire at ICM. Brightness should be same if you connect this load straight to battery terminals. If you do this test with a proper load, then #1 and #3 can be skipped.
3.) test light to battery negative, touch on black wire, crank engine (test light lights = bad ground)

However no coil control suggests a bad ICM. You tested for coil control without the coils attached so the ICM should have had enough juice to at least switch a transistor to ground. Seems like a bad ICM.

But you already put in a new ICM. Maybe the coil primary is shorted and killed the coil driver. Did it come out of the box bad, or did it turn bad when you installed it I don't know.

Check coil primary circuit ohms. It should be low ohms, but not 0. I don't have the specs for this.

Side note this has nothing to do with no control from ICM and no spark but your compression readings: look at the compression for the other displacement engines lol.

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24 Sep 2019 07:52 #33833 by shuttlrep
Replied by shuttlrep on topic 2.2 Ecotec Crank no Start no Spark
I did compression again it is just below 125 lbs witch does seem low, now.
They are relatively the same across the board tho.
So I will proceed with the test you have laid out.
Thank You

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24 Sep 2019 12:34 #33838 by shuttlrep
Replied by shuttlrep on topic 2.2 Ecotec Crank no Start no Spark
I thought it a good idea to asked for help. I tried to pretend I haven't touched anything. I paid particular attention when the technician actually pulled the coil pack off the car for testing. The meter did not change, he let out a 'HUM' and preceded to check the other side. He then said indications are I need a coil pack and proceeded further testing. I found myself inside a SCANNERDANNER video.
And I now know the cause of the Airbag Light. (not related)
He then suggested a new or used coil pack.
I will purchase the coil pack thru the mail and post the results.

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10 Oct 2019 19:01 #34157 by robert.lesaca
Replied by robert.lesaca on topic 2.2 Ecotec Crank no Start no Spark
to test coil:
1. KOEO, Test Light to ground; disconnect coil harness and you will see 4 pins that i will call ABCD with A the left most pin and D the right most pin;
2. touch pins and the pin that lites TL is feed. this is pin B. this feed is common to both coils;
3. connect TL to batt (+), KOEC, touch pin A and C and TL should flash; this are the control wires;
- what ever pin that does not flash will be the faulty defective driver
4. do a coil resistance test, KOEO, ohmmeter red lead to pin B (power feed) and black lead on both pin A and C; reading shld be 1-2 ohms average.

i use to own a 2001 LS 200 Saturn and these engines are notorious for jump timing chain and faulty coil...good lick

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10 Oct 2019 21:11 #34161 by shuttlrep
Replied by shuttlrep on topic 2.2 Ecotec Crank no Start no Spark
I didn't want to be a part changer but before having it towed I felt the need to purchase the main cause items, Crank Sensor, ECM and now a coil pack.
After putting it in a relatively high end mechanic service as a Crank no start 'intermittent' (cranking verified by the tow driver) I received a call.
I was told the module was replaced and the car started right up.
However the starter is now bad.
A No Crank, Start condition, lol.
The bill was $750 due if I wanted the repairs completed.
I paid it Tuesday 2:pm it is Thursday after 5 pm no call yet.
My two weeks of experience tells me he did add another module only the car started 'Intermittently' however he believed he had fixed it.
When time came perhaps to move it out of the garage it was back to a crank no start.
At that point the Starter was warn out attempting start the car again.
I certainly plan on letting you guys know who this pans out.

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