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2002 VW GTI with CRANK but NO SPARK, NO FUEL INJECTION FIRING with CEL

  • datallman11
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28 Aug 2019 10:35 #33211 by datallman11
Can you help me figure out the missing gap?

I have a 2002 VW GTI 1.8t that I picked up. Last known to run before it was parked. The issues are:
CELs are:
- P0171 (the cat wires are cut and not connected.)
- P0322 (the crank sensor pulled out was in range and the new one installed, but still nothing)
** EPC and CEL are on, **EVEN AFTER CLEARING THE CEL, both EPC and CEL stay on
- No RPMs being read on ODB scanner
- it CRANKS, new battery
- NO START or attempt, other than CRANKING
- NO SPARK
- FUEL INJECTORS NOT FIRING
- Fuel pump works
- plugs, coils, etc all check out OK.
- Tested Crankshaft sensor .700 ohms and the new Bosch sensor is .800 ohms both are in range and should be good.
- Tested power from CPS connector and was getting 2.5v with key ON/OFF
- The wheel in the crank reads from looked OK using a video scope
- All other plugs, wires, mechanical items all look ok.
- The car just cranks and cranks until it dies. The oil, airbag, coolant lights come on randomly when I just crank and crank....
- Cant say its a vacuum leak, because car would start but run bad.
- Overall Car looks OK, doesn't Appear any animals lived in here, isn't rusted and busted, other things seem to work no issues.

I suspect a break in the wire or ECU is not right. Car ran before it sat for a few months.

Where do i check from here? thanks for any/all suggestions.

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28 Aug 2019 16:05 #33227 by John Curtis
No spark + No Injector Pulse + NO RPM signal on scan data.
Test Crank sensor as it cranks at the sensor if it looks good there then go back to the computer and verify it is getting to the computer. Sounds like an open as you already suspected.

Thinking out loud always helps me in the process.

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28 Aug 2019 16:35 #33231 by datallman11
Thank you John. I’ll def try that. I have to remove the oil filter to reach the connector, and obviously can’t crank with the filter in place. Hopefully I can get the right connections on the first try.

I also suspected maybe 2.5v meant a ground wasn’t in place... not sure if that thinking even makes sense.

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28 Aug 2019 17:14 #33234 by John Curtis
I would perform a bypass test. Danner has a video on how to do this.

Thinking out loud always helps me in the process.

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29 Aug 2019 09:17 #33251 by juergen.scholl
Although the sensor seems to feature 3 wires, it is a variable reluctance one, the third cable is shielding only. The 2.5 volts is a bias voltage.....

As the sensor produces AC voltage you can read it's output with the voltmeter. There should be a black connector just above the oilfilter you can connect to wires.

If you give details of the engine code I can look up the ECU pins and terminals where the ckp wires are supposed to go to.

Greeting

An expert is someone who knows each time more on each time less, until he finally knows absolutely everything about absolutely nothing.

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29 Aug 2019 22:05 #33283 by datallman11
Yes, it does have 3 wires. I just watched a video from Danner that turned out to be a bad relay that was causing the sensors to only get 2.5 bolts, so when I can that’s that I’ll try to test also.

The engine is a 1.8 turbo AWP is all I k
now. I think the ECU May be ok, but obviously something in between is not.

Thank you.

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30 Aug 2019 15:13 #33297 by datallman11
Update: I was able to test the sensor... middle wire only read 2.5v cranking and not cranking. Didn’t fluctuate at all.

I tried unplugging sensors, relays in the engine bay and no change. The wire diagram says pin 82 white, pin 90 brown... but I don’t have the page that shows those wires to the crank/speed sensor. Anyone have that as a jpg or pdf?

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30 Aug 2019 15:53 #33298 by jreardon
Bottom left corner of image

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30 Aug 2019 19:06 #33302 by datallman11
Great, thank you. Ok... so the camshaft sensor is tied to it also. I can find and check that. Def easier seeing the whole thing on one page. Thank you.

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02 Sep 2019 19:53 #33375 by datallman11
Well I know what I’ve done, but I don’t know what I’m doing...

I disconnected all the connections I could, removed the relays in the engine compartment... no change in voltage at all. Still stick at 2.5v crank and at no crank. The EPC and CEL LIGHT stay on. And still no RPMs... both the previous and new sensor read within the working range.

I really don’t know what to do here.

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03 Sep 2019 10:18 - 03 Sep 2019 10:19 #33382 by John Curtis
Depending on what wire you’re getting that reading at 2.5 might be okay. Though I think it would be lower than that if you’re testing with a voltmeter as the voltmeter will read the average.

Also out of curiosity how are you testing? Wire to wire at the sensor? Battery ground to sensor?

No spark and no injector pulse is an input problem. A bypass test can confirm this.

Does the tach show rpm signal during crank?

Check ref voltage at MAF/Map or something easy to get to. Is it 5v?

Thinking out loud always helps me in the process.
Last edit: 03 Sep 2019 10:19 by John Curtis.

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03 Sep 2019 11:56 #33385 by datallman11
I am using a Voltmeter and an a basic ODB2 reader. I believe my testing showed 2.5v with wire to wire on wire 2 and 3. According to online forum, 1 is shielding, 2 is ground and 3 is the signal wire.it stays 2.5v without crank and on crank.

No RPMs showing any movement on ODB2 or on the tach. CEL and EPC light still on.

I've been testing wire to wire, I believe i have tried battery ground to sensor a few times and think it was all the same.

The MAF/MAP sensor checked out OK. I think a few sensors do use the 5v and others I'm not sure. I haven't found any details on what the VW should be using for the Crankshaft sensor. I ordered another Crankshaft sensor in case the one is faulty for whatever reason.

Where can i find the Bypass test?

I still have to get to the computer to maybe test there too.

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03 Sep 2019 11:59 #33386 by ShadeTree
Could I please attempt to assist.

Go to pin 98 on the PCM 121 pin connector. Check whether you have a 5V. This is shared between the hall sender and the charge air pressure sender.

Since you do not have spark, injector pulse and the rest, this indicate an input issue, however is your PCM alive?, please check the 5V reference circuit first.

I thank you.

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03 Sep 2019 19:35 #33401 by datallman11
Great thank you. I was able to get to the ECU and do some tests with a electrician... we tested the pin 128 and 98 and there was 5v.

When I tested the #2 (center pin) on the connector to the crankshaft sensor and grounded to the battery, it popped a 2.5v.

When I tested wire to wire, #2 & #3 it tested 2.5v also.

The electrician did a continuity test and we checked the three wires.... the white one had 0 continuity... according to him, there’s a break in the wire. And these three wires are direct and shielded... so somewhere it’s jot making the connection.

Does that make sense that it’s only getting 2.5v then?!? Thinking it’s not getting the signal back to the ECU... ?

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04 Sep 2019 17:47 #33416 by datallman11
Update: we jumped the white wire from the ECU to the wire harness at the crankshaft sensor and she started up... thank you all for your help and suggestions. Hope this helps more people.

Bottom line is it’s a broken wire, it’s a shielded 3-wire... so I’ll redo the wiring with proper wire.

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