1997 Pontiac GranAm SE 3.1 Stalling and backfiring under load & WOT
Here are details on this 1997 Pontiac GrandAm 3.1 engine
This one stalls under just about any load.
Sometimes it stalls when put in gear.
This engine will stall and backfire thru intake at WOT.
it will intermitently shut off at IDLE in park.
Any Quick snap of the throttle and it will seem like its going to stall and backfire until it almost always shuts off. when it does start again it struggles and you can smell the raw Fuel out of the exhaust
Tests performed so far. All Waveforms were viewed with Maxiscope 4 channel scope
All power and grounds verified at PCM.
MAF frequency is good
24x crankshaft waverform is good and clean
7x crank waveform is also good, Harness replaced at this sensor because it was very corroded and worn at exhaust manifold
Camshaft sensor waveform is good also on labscope
5volt reference is steady on all sensors.
Fuel Pressure is in specification, No Fuel at regular vacuum line checked that too,
Initially thought it was ignition module so we swapped a new one in with no change
Shop Owner was able to get a used PCM to plug and play, still same symptom
No shorts to voltage on injector Drivers and solid Battery voltage on feed to injectors
the attached wavefrom Orange Channel is the Amp Clamp on the voltage feed to the injectors and the green tracer is channel to Injector 2 Driver at intake manifold connector to injectors.
Reason I went here is everytime it would stall at WOT or any load the ampereage spikes high on a few cylinders so please any input would be great.
Also did a backpressure test and it was in the green on the gauge so not clogged. Fuel Filter was also removed and i can easily blow air accross it.
HELP. This one is taking too long and first one in my life i cant figure out.
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I have watched with Voltmeter when it does shut off on its own and the voltage is not lost at ignition control module which is common I know but not the case here
TPS Waveform on Labscope has clean slope with no breaks
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At least one of these ramps should be exactly lined up with that.
Second, there is something else on this injector circuit, that is running. The ramps should be dropping to 0 amps when they are off and it is not.
Third, when is this capture being taken? Idle, snap throttle?
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Don't be a parts changer!
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Don't be a parts changer!
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Don't be a parts changer!
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Don't be a parts changer!
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I also zoomed in the ramps that did appear on the screen incase you needed to see. I took two snap shots at different instances and you can see its like we are dropping two cylinders.
This is good learning experience for us here
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Between the two groups of ramps, i can see 4 - 5 missing fires.
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There are three coils here, so it is 1-2-3, 1-2-3, 1-2-3 etc (not necessarily in that order)
What we are seeing when it is misfiring is not only are we dropping one coil but there is also a dwell time issue on one of the two ramps that are still showing.
This is ABSOLUTELY why your engine is backfiring and running bad.
Now, we need to know if this is from a garbage input or you have a module issue.
Grab the 7x crank sensor signal with your scope next and let's look at it during this event.
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so to go along with your suggestion, when the vehicle first came in the harness to the 7x sensor was melted to the exhaust manifold so I put a new pigtail and a new 7x crank sensor already and I have seen the waveform on it and its absolutely clean.
So after What I saw yesterday on the coil ramps, Shop owner gave me green light to put on all new 3 ignition coils and what a difference. Now it revs up under load and was able to do the Crank Variation Relearn.
It still wants to stumble sometimes under absolutely hard snap throttle. We have a new Ignition Control module coming and we will get Coil Ramps before and after we put on the new IGN module.
Will keep you posted.
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Channel A is off the feed to IGN control module on Pink wire
Channel B is on the 7X Crank signal wire. as you can see at idle it seems fine and the car runs much much better but still stalls when you go heavy and fast on the throttle WOT.
I was able to capture it when it started to stall and you can see a huge air gap on both crank and Coil ramps? What do you think is happening?
Side note on this, I thought maybe we were loosing voltage to IGN Control module and ran battery voltage to the primary feed wire directly from the battery with a fuse and it had no change to it. Again its running way better and it now allows me to do a crank variation relearn but every now and then when you go heavy on the throttle it will try to stall (NO MORE BACKFIRES)
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What is going on right?
Channel A on ign control module primary feed wire
Channel B on 7x sensor
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