Request cam/crank reference waveform 1.6 THP 5FM (EP6CDTM), 120 kW 163 HP

Hi all!

I know it's a European car, but I was wondering if anybody who has access to the Pico waveform library would be kind enough as to send me a cam/crank reference for that particular engine?

I would be really grateful!

And, on a side note, the car is throwing a pesky, well-known but hardly ever fixed P0012 intake camshaft over-retarded DTC.

Obviously, before the car came to me, it had all the following replaced:

oil pump and oil pressure solenoid - oil psi actual is what is specified throughout the rpm/load range.
timing chain done with OEM Peugeot phaser
camshaft sensor replaced from a known good vehicle
VVT solenoid replaced, obviously
oil changes, oil filters
cylinder head had to come off because an exhaust valve was burnt out. Thus, the oil channels were cleaned
Those two oil seals on the camshaft were replaced.

It seems that literally everything to do has been changed out already. And many people have had this problem with these terrible engines.

Now, I suspect the timing is out. I did a cam/crank correlation and I believe it's off by a "tooth" (I mean tooth on the waveform - I don't know if that correlates to an actual tooth on the crankshaft). It has had timing done at least thrice, but, who knows, perhaps the locking tools had some play in them.

Btw, is this a valid test for testing VVT issues: I disconnected the connector from the VVT solenoid and applied pwr+gnd and the engine nearly stalled out (obviously). The position of the camshaft changed as well. Did I exclude with this test the functionality of the phaser, valve, and oil pressure?

I must admit I have a hard time properly diagnosing these types of faults. At least I'm not guilty of having fired the parts-cannon at this one, lol!

Thank you kindly for the waveform!

Regards.

Don't have access to the Pico library, but the Rotkee library does have a 5FV EP6CDT example:

rotkee.com/en/wavebase/good-timing-ckp-c...rand=192&engine=1817

Closest thing I could find. There were no EP6CDTM examples, unfortunately.

Thanks, Tyler, that's the one I have used before, it would seem that I'm off one "tooth".

I'll let you know what I find.

What do you think about the VVT test I write about? I still have a lot to learn about VVT diagnostics.

Farseer wrote:

What do you think about the VVT test I write about? I still have a lot to learn about VVT diagnostics.

I think it's good! The only question I would have is when the P0012 sets. All time time, at idle, under load, with the engine hot? I've seen intermittent VVT problems that boiled down to low engine oil pressure with the engine hot, or engine oil aeration due to a leak in the suction side of the oil pump.

I'd also be interested to watch the intake VVT solenoid current with everything connected normally. Current there, but the advance isn't? Mechanical problem. Current isn't there? Electrical problem.

This engine is in the same family as the MINI N12, right? Just trying to get some context. The MINI VVT PIDS are either useless or non-existent. Same for Peugeot?

Wow, thank you so much for those questions, I'm writing them down for future diagnosis.

As per your questions:

The P0012 will set even when I rev the engine at idle (if I leave it idling it flags nothing). Will set during driving.

You're quite right! I have a 1.4 THP engine sitting in a Mini Cooper at work, and there was NOTHING helpful. Even though there are two VVT solenoids, for intake and exhaust.

Thankfully, the Peugeot is a bit more helpful. At idle, the actual and specified values match at 36" and the duty cycle of the VVT solenoid is 6%. When I rev it, it climbs to 97% duty cycle, specified jumps about the place (depending how steady I keep the revs at 3000), but the actual remains at 36. Hence, the P0012.

However, I've noticed that after a while of heavy revving at idle, the actual value *might* jump to -30, for instance. It doesn't match the specified at all. Yet, there is some movement. And that coincides with a change in engine sound.

I really don't understand what that means. Seems like that might be a blockage? But everything had been changed before it came to us... I checked the invoices as well, and I can see a brand new OE Peugeot phaser. The garage I work for did the head, so the oil gallies were cleaned/blown out, too.

Some sort of a mechanical failure, then it jumps to some value but why doesn't it jump to where the ECU wants it to be?

That part I don't understand at all...

Btw, I scoped the VVT. It does have a duty cycle and that changes like I previosuly mentioned. HOWEVER, the current remains the same at around 600mA, which is a bit low, no? The valve itself can pull around 1A when I bench test it.

It had an oil pump change because of low engine oil psi at one point, but now the actual and specified oil pressure matches.

I'll do some more testing tomorrow at cold and hot temperatures.

Wow, how did you find out that aeriated oil was causing problems? What a find.