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No crank 2005 Chrysler t and 3.3L

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6 months 5 days ago #84749 by Startspooning
No crank 2005 Chrysler t and 3.3L was created by Startspooning
I started my van forgetting to reattach sparkplug wires 2,4,6 one night and prior to that there weren't any problems with starting or running-never stalled or had intermittent issues. When I started it it ran for 2-3 seconds with a violent shake and died. It hasn't started since. I get a click when trying to start and so far have done the following-

checked all fuses and relays good

jumped 30 to 87 at starter relay and starter turns

jumped 85 to ground at starter relay and starter turns with key in start position

Jumped asd relay 30 to 87 and fuel pump powers up(my street is busy and hard to pinpoint sound but I hear a familiar sound I think is fuel pump)

With asd relay in socket and lightbulb in place of fuel pump fuse with key in RUN I get dimmed light-with key in start I get a flashing dimmed light
 
And then I feel lost...

I've checked many of the sensors and I'm feeling like the PCM isn't giving ground to the asd or the ipm is blocking the ground from getting to asd. At this point I'm losing direction as my auto repair skills are not well exercised. 

I attached some data from some a scantool. I have an autel mp808 and a eui adl 7100 to help if someone tells me how to use them. 

If the PCM or ipm end up being the problem is there a way to Bypass temporarily to move the car about a mile?  Or whatever the issue maybe I kinda need to move the car.

I hope this is understandable and I'm attaching the most current and complete data I have but please instruct me if I can get more and better data. Thanks a bunch!
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6 months 4 days ago #84761 by Chad
Replied by Chad on topic No crank 2005 Chrysler t and 3.3L

I get a click when trying to start

What is clicking?

Does scan data have a starter/crank request?

Go to the PCM and check for BAT+ on Connector 1, Pin 30 when the key is in the START position. ... It should be a yellow wire.
If you get BAT+ on Pin 30, go to Connector 3, pin 38... Dark Green wire with an orange stripe. What do you get on this wire when the Ignition is in the START position?
This point is a "Fork in the Road"...If there is BAT+ we are turning Right. If there is a GROUND we are turning Left.


  






 

"Knowledge is a weapon. Arm yourself, well, before going to do battle."
"Understanding a question is half an answer."

I have learned more by being wrong, than I have by being right. :-)
The following user(s) said Thank You: Tyler

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6 months 4 days ago #84771 by Startspooning
Replied by Startspooning on topic No crank 2005 Chrysler t and 3.3L
I get a click from the asd or starter relay. I have b+ on the yellow and grn/org wore (neg test lead to ground and pos to wire with connectors plugged in to PCM and ipm)

I attached another file with other data.  Some line says something about crank out-of-sequence...im not sure if it's results data or always part of a scantest.

 
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6 months 4 days ago #84773 by Startspooning
Replied by Startspooning on topic No crank 2005 Chrysler t and 3.3L
Another thing I just noticed as I went to double check b+ voltage on both wires mentioned prior..I hear two clicks moving from run to start and two voltages are displayed. When going from run to start I see a 6v or 11v at halfway between run to start before steady 12.5 in start. Then going start to run I see 12.5 at start, 6v or 1v midway and 0v at run.
Although I can find the midway spot between run and start the voltage variation isn't consistent in any manner I can understand.
Just something I noticed and thought maybe might be useful info.

Thank you btw Chad!! I am very grateful.

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6 months 3 days ago - 6 months 3 days ago #84868 by Chad
Replied by Chad on topic No crank 2005 Chrysler t and 3.3L

I get a click from the asd or starter relay.

If the starter relay is clicking, but not engaging the starter, and...

jumped 30 to 87 at starter relay and starter turns

... this suggests a bad relay.

However, if the starter relay is clicking, I would expect to see a GROUND on the DK GRN/ORG wire of Connector 3,  PIN 38 when the key is in the start position.
Since you have BAT+ on the DK GRN/ORG wire of Connector 3, PIN 38 when in the START position, it is probably safe to assume that the starter relay is NOT clicking.


Assuming that you have no codes or dash lights indicating a security/key problem, I would use a jumper wire to short the DK GRN/ORG wire of Connector 3, PIN 38 to BAT Negative, while holding the key in the START position, . This should engage the starter. If the engine starts and runs, it would be a safe bet that the starter relay control driver inside the pcm is bad. If the engine cranks, but does not start, we will have to take a look at the SKREEM...(Sentry Key REmote Entry Module).

"Knowledge is a weapon. Arm yourself, well, before going to do battle."
"Understanding a question is half an answer."

I have learned more by being wrong, than I have by being right. :-)
Last edit: 6 months 3 days ago by Chad.

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6 months 1 day ago #84932 by Startspooning
Replied by Startspooning on topic No crank 2005 Chrysler t and 3.3L
Ok. It turns over but does not start. I'll wait for instructions. Thanks again for your time

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6 months 12 minutes ago #85081 by Chad
Replied by Chad on topic No crank 2005 Chrysler t and 3.3L
Use your scan tool to look in the BCM for the SKREEM status.

Check the SKREEM for POWER on pins 4 and 6. Ground on pin 5 

"Knowledge is a weapon. Arm yourself, well, before going to do battle."
"Understanding a question is half an answer."

I have learned more by being wrong, than I have by being right. :-)

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5 months 4 weeks ago #85144 by Startspooning
Replied by Startspooning on topic No crank 2005 Chrysler t and 3.3L
I tested 12v at pins 4 and 6. Pin 5 is grounded.

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5 months 4 weeks ago #85145 by Startspooning
Replied by Startspooning on topic No crank 2005 Chrysler t and 3.3L
The skreem status was

0 DTC's passed

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5 months 4 weeks ago #85150 by Chad
Replied by Chad on topic No crank 2005 Chrysler t and 3.3L
It's not looking good for the PCM.
Does the fuel pump run for a couple of seconds after the key is turned on?

Check the Powers and Ground of connector 1  and the grounds on connector 4.
 

 

"Knowledge is a weapon. Arm yourself, well, before going to do battle."
"Understanding a question is half an answer."

I have learned more by being wrong, than I have by being right. :-)

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5 months 3 weeks ago - 5 months 3 weeks ago #85197 by Startspooning
Replied by Startspooning on topic No crank 2005 Chrysler t and 3.3L
The powers and grounds were good with voltages on the powers and continuity to ground for ground connections. The fuel pump powered on with the asd relay jumped but I could not hear the pump now due to traffic. If I connect a test light or bulb between gas pump fuse connectors would that be a good way to test?

Since it is looking like the PCM has issues, could it be possible to feed ground power where needed to move the van? The start, ignition and fuel signals are complicated but maybe like a failsafe way. I only need to go less than mile...

The PCM seems to return responses to almost all of sensors and inputs, etc. I've noticed when getting codes from the dash or the super basic innova scanner and the autel-there is a variation in DTC's displayed. The autel was consistent while the innova seemed limited with it displaying the same codes and missing new codes and the dash having the most frequent display of different codes. Is that a sign of PCM issues also or is the dash limited or inconsistent just how it is?

One last thing is the cam and crank sync-out of sync on the data from autel, is the a possible part of the problem? I attatched the data.

Thanks Chad I needed this help!! If you feel confident at the point at new PCM is needed I will do that.

Or if we need to continue ok.

If I check thru each system and give what's missing to what's missing it, bypass the PCM is that a dangerous or damaging thing to do? I think I could find and jump what's necessary on my own but I'm not certain of the outcomes possible.

Thanks again sorry for the drawn out time this is taking
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Last edit: 5 months 3 weeks ago by Startspooning. Reason: Add data scans

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5 months 3 weeks ago #85202 by Chad
Replied by Chad on topic No crank 2005 Chrysler t and 3.3L

The powers and grounds were good with voltages on the powers and continuity to ground for ground connections.

Checking continuity to ground is NOT a good test. Simply, having continuity to ground does not mean that the ground is good enough to carry a load. You should connect a test-light to Battery + and use the ground to light the test light. Do this at the PCM connector(s).  A good ground will illuminate the test light, brightly. A bad ground may illuminate the test-light, dimly. Or, not at all. 
Here , is an excellent video that will explain this, very well.

If the Fuel Injectors and the Ignition coils fire when you crank it, you may be able to get it started by bypassing the Starter Relay. You may, or may not, have to coax the Fuel Pump in to running, too.

 

"Knowledge is a weapon. Arm yourself, well, before going to do battle."
"Understanding a question is half an answer."

I have learned more by being wrong, than I have by being right. :-)

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