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hard start morning from cold only
- frankiedon
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7 years 10 months ago #21752
by frankiedon
hard start morning from cold only was created by frankiedon
Hi Frank here again from Barbados: I have a 2009 Kia Picanto/Morning 1.1L 4-cyl. We have a hard-start only in the morning from cold AND IT SMELLS OF GAS. Starts fine the remainder of the day. I have been trying to diagnose it and thinks it is low fuel pressure but would appreciate some help as I am still learning. I have the following data: RPM 1253 LT -5.47 ST +17.97 O2S1 0.05 RPM 1238 LT-5.47 O2S1 0.04 RPM 289 LT-5.47 ST +5.47 02S1 0.82 RPM 3389 LT -5.47 ST -7.03 O2S1 0.750.
I think I covered all the important points and look forward to your response.
Thank you, Frank
I think I covered all the important points and look forward to your response.
Thank you, Frank
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- Matts Auto
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7 years 10 months ago #21780
by Matts Auto
Replied by Matts Auto on topic hard start morning from cold only
Gas smell may be a small leak on fuel pressure line and draining the fuel from the line when sitting for long periods. I would make sure fuel lines have no leaks first.
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- frankiedon
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7 years 10 months ago #21781
by frankiedon
Replied by frankiedon on topic hard start morning from cold only
Hi Matt yes I have been looking for a leak at the fuel pump under the back seat and there are no leaks there. The fuel pressure regulator is in the tank with the pump. There is a little white plastic thing near to the connector and I don't know what it is for. But no gas is leaking there.
I am thinking that the gas smell is coming from the unburnt gas from the muffler because of the no start on the first time crank. How does that sound to you?
Thanks, Frank
I am thinking that the gas smell is coming from the unburnt gas from the muffler because of the no start on the first time crank. How does that sound to you?
Thanks, Frank
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- Noah
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7 years 10 months ago #21854
by Noah
Replied by Noah on topic hard start morning from cold only
You could leave a fuel pressure gauge on the engine for an extended period of time to observe a leak (as long as there is access of course).
Another thought that comes to mind is a head gasket type failure that can seep coolant into cylinders after shutdown causing a hard start. It wouldn't necessarily display any other signs of a head gasket failure.
You could pressure check the cooling system or maybe even just pop the plugs out before the first start of the day and look for signs of coolant.
Like a puddle in the cylinder, a wet spark plug or a super clean piston top compared to the others.
Another thought that comes to mind is a head gasket type failure that can seep coolant into cylinders after shutdown causing a hard start. It wouldn't necessarily display any other signs of a head gasket failure.
You could pressure check the cooling system or maybe even just pop the plugs out before the first start of the day and look for signs of coolant.
Like a puddle in the cylinder, a wet spark plug or a super clean piston top compared to the others.
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- Matts Auto
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7 years 10 months ago #21867
by Matts Auto
Replied by Matts Auto on topic hard start morning from cold only
Sorry I haven't responded back I've been crazy busy. Make sure you look at your fuel lines from engine to fuel tank as best as you can. The line could be leaking at any point & it may only be damp i.e. Very small leak
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- GeekDIYMechanic
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7 years 10 months ago #21890
by GeekDIYMechanic
Replied by GeekDIYMechanic on topic hard start morning from cold only
I'm a little confused.
You state you smell gas. When I read it, I assumed you meant as you walked up to the car in the morning. But, in another response, you thought maybe from the long cold start crank times.
Perhaps help me understand the true state of things.
Your fuel trims bug me.
Any DTCs?
What comes to my mind are three tests:
EVAP purge valve functionality
IAC functionality
Fuel injector balance test
You state you smell gas. When I read it, I assumed you meant as you walked up to the car in the morning. But, in another response, you thought maybe from the long cold start crank times.
Perhaps help me understand the true state of things.
Your fuel trims bug me.
Any DTCs?
What comes to my mind are three tests:
EVAP purge valve functionality
IAC functionality
Fuel injector balance test
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7 years 10 months ago #21891
by GeekDIYMechanic
Replied by GeekDIYMechanic on topic hard start morning from cold only
Opps.. One more thing.
This will cause a DTC though.
But, maybe when your car doesn't start, unplug the MAF and tell me if the car starts immediately.
This will cause a DTC though.
But, maybe when your car doesn't start, unplug the MAF and tell me if the car starts immediately.
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- frankiedon
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7 years 10 months ago #21899
by frankiedon
Replied by frankiedon on topic hard start morning from cold only
Hi Geekdiy As it turned out, this model doesn't have a canister so no evap. either. It only has a small filter on the fuel pump cover I suppose that is where the tube for the canister would be connected if it had an evaporative system.
I have a pdf download that is for 2004 to 2011 models but it is not clear as to which models have what systems.The smell of gas is after the cranking and then it starts not before this.This weekend I am going to check the fuel lines a little more closely underneath, But at present I don't smell gas other than when it hard-starts. The fuel pressure regulator seems to be in the tank with the pump and I plan to open it up to see if the sock is plugged.I don't have a pressure gauge yet so I can't check it.
Thanks for your interest and help.
Frank.
I have a pdf download that is for 2004 to 2011 models but it is not clear as to which models have what systems.The smell of gas is after the cranking and then it starts not before this.This weekend I am going to check the fuel lines a little more closely underneath, But at present I don't smell gas other than when it hard-starts. The fuel pressure regulator seems to be in the tank with the pump and I plan to open it up to see if the sock is plugged.I don't have a pressure gauge yet so I can't check it.
Thanks for your interest and help.
Frank.
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- frankiedon
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7 years 10 months ago #21900
by frankiedon
Replied by frankiedon on topic hard start morning from cold only
I forgot to mention that it doesn't have a MAF. So I guess that makes it a speed density system. Frank.
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