06 Ford F150 5.4. CMP / CKP Correlation Help. Engine Knocks, Misfires, Stalls

Hi Guys,

I have a 2006 Ford F150 5.4L that came in with a stalling issue and the CEL was on. I can't remember the code number but it was Cam Position Sensor Circuit Bank 2.

During a test drive the truck started up and ran great minus a slight studder or misfire. Nothing to noticeable. It had plenty of power and only acted up when come to a stop once in awhile. It stalled 3 times on my 25+ minute drive. When it stalls the engine starts to misfire, knocks like hell, sounds like its tearing itself apart inside and eventually stalls. I can get it to repeat in the bay every time under very very light throttle after power braking the engine. It will actually stay running some times but it sounds like its going to explode.

I checked the oil level since the oil change was just done at our shop and its fine. I thought maybe the oil level was low and it was loosing oil pressure. I have not verified oil pressure with a gauge. Only indication that oil pressure should be good is from the cluster

I did a CMP / CKP Correlation test and I can't believe what I am seeing. I have attached 3 pictures. Some suggestions would be great.

My next move is to get approval to remove the valve covers to see if I can get an eye on the chain. Not sure if I can I haven't had to do a chain on a 5.4L before. I know some engines removing the valve cover doesn't expose the chain. I am leaning on chain and components as the timing is certainly off but in the back of my mind thinking something else might be going on too.

Signals taken at PCM

Yellow: BANK 2 CMP
Green: BANK 1 CMP
Blue: CKP

Cranking Waveform


Engine Running "OK" Waveform


Engine Running - Big Problem Waveform
THEORY: Crank and/or cam chain tension is gone causing the chain to slap or tighten up at time causing the cams to spin much faster creating the high spikes on both banks?


Known Good from IATN that I am comparing to.

Hey greywave your problem is most likely a bad cam phaser. There very common on these 3v engine I remember the first 1 I worked on did just that only knocked at stop after engine was warm and it sounded like the thing had no oil pressure I remember comparing it to an old tired diesel engine! Since then I've done several dozen in my experience when there intermittent like that it's the phaser and when it's constant it's either phaser or solenoid but always check solenoid while valve cover is off. Also if you do the repair get the tool to hold the cam chain so you don't have to remove the timing cover to change the phaser just mark it's location on chain and phaser and replace new phaser on same mark

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

Thanks Ben.

The phasers were in the back of my mind but never had to deal with them before. Thanks for the info. I was actually taking another look at the "timing" and it actually doesn't look bad. I was looking at a different area in the waveform.

I'll certainly take a look at the phasers and the solenoid.

You are right though, it does sound like an old tired diesel engine. You almost can't talk to the guy next to you its so darn loud.

It sounds like you also have a cam sensor or circuit problem as well these will log a hole list about timing for the affected bank when the cam sensor is working

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

I've tested the cam sensors both at the sensors and the pcm haven't seen an issue with the sensor or circuit its self. Though the DTC that was set initially, has not come back even when the engine is acting up and stalling.

I did swap the cam sensors from one bank to another so if the cam sensor does fail, it should read on a different bank. Unless its a wiring issue. This truck has other issue too so I may not dig into this any further if the customer doesn't want to.

Check out FordTechMakuloco on YouTube he has various videos covering 3V 5.4L engine timing issues. Might find it helpful.

Thanks Nashic. I found one of his videos last night and it put things in more perspective. I'm doing more research before digging into it.

Did some more data gathering. While this happens I can see the VCT timing PIDs go erratic. Timing ranges from 0 deg to 60+ degrees on which ever bank is effected at idle with no throttle input. Mostly bank 2. the CEL did come back on this morning when it acted up again. Yesterday I had it acting up at least 7-8 times with no CEL but I also noticed on the scope that sometimes it was bank 2 and sometimes it was both banks.

P0340 Cam position Sensor Circuit Fault
P0345 CMP sensor A Circuit Problem Bank 2

I am thinking are false circuit codes. Mainly due to the fact that the oscilloscope showed both CMP sensors and the CKP sensor working fine during the events yesterday with no CEL. I also swapped the CMP sensors from one bank to another and the CEL came back on for bank 2 which is the side it mentioned before I swapped the sensors.

The phaser issue seems to go away when reving the engine above 2000 Rpm a couple times. After which it will idle and run fine with a minor ticking noise that seems to get worse as the engine gets hot.

Is there a good way of testing these phasers out of the vehicle?

No need to test out of vehicle they break the pin that holds the preload spring you'll see it when you remove it

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

Thanks Ben. Been doing lots of research on how exactly it suppose to work and it all makes sense in my head now.

I also read about a lock out insert for these. I can only imagine that would cause some concerns. Have you heard about that? I'm not suggesting I'm going to do it I just thought it was interesting.

Are you referring to the vvt delete? Heard of them never tried one.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

I do believe the "delete" is the same so yes.

I won't be posting any confirmed fixes for this. I have moved on from that shop to another which offer a lot more money. The other mechanic I keep in touch with is also leaving that same shop but he might still do this job. If I hear anything I'll post an update.