Electric Throttle Body Failures Without Codes?

That was actually really cool because I found that out just by looking at some PIDS while sitting in the driver's seat. This is a 2006 Dodge 1500 with the 5.7L. In the engine data there is an ignition menu. It monitors the coils and has PIDS for each coil's dwell time as well as spark burn time. That's pretty cool! Right away I could see the number 6 coil had a problem. All coils had the same dwell time and all but the #6 had around 2.2ms burn time but the #6 was 0.2ms.

Do you recall which data list you found the coil burn times? I was doing plugs on a 5.7L in a 2012 Challenger today, wanted to look at some before and after data with the new plugs. Couldn't find the burn time PIDs, but that doesn't mean they weren't there

Also, I remembered that I had a cool capture from a Mercury Mountaineer with spark duration PIDs. Just past frame 2200 is when I pulled a plug wire off the coil pack and manipulated the spark with a test light.

www.scanshare.io/share/LpF8BUxXqESsUm9pr0uPAw#4,5,6,7,8,9

Tyler wrote: Do you recall which data list you found the coil burn times? I was doing plugs on a 5.7L in a 2012 Challenger today, wanted to look at some before and after data with the new plugs. Couldn't find the burn time PIDs, but that doesn't mean they weren't there

Yeah, on this Ram it was in a data list called Ignition. Didn't have too much else in there. Engine RPM, burn time and dwell times, end um... I think cam/crank sync states..? A couple others too that I can't remember.

That's a cool capture! I love capturing stuff when I'm trying to manually manipulate things.

Well, I finally got this truck figured out. Man, what a saga this turned into... To recap once the truck is warm it would stall after coming to a sudden stop. Sometimes when it wouldn't stall outright it would feel like something is lugging the engine down and then would surge a few times when you start going again. When it did stall it would stall very abruptly. Truck would start right back up. Never set any codes. The engine ran great. Smooth with lots of power. The transmission shifted great and felt great while driving. Just didn't have creep and sometimes would lurch when stationary.

Close to three months ago we replaced the transmission solenoid pack and filters. It seemed like the stalling condition happened soon after that. Once I first got it to stall I became convinced it was tranny related. I read that low trans fluid or leaking filter seal can cause this kind of stalling condition. It causes the TCC to be slow to release. This is entirely what it felt like. Especially when it didn't fully stall and it surged after you started going again. It totally felt like I was fighting a partially applied TCC. A month ago I pulled the pan and everything looked good. Filled it back up and then checked TCC apply and release pressures. The apply pressures looked on the low side but the release pressures looked great. So I took a gamble on replacing the torque converter. They're known to have problems on these 545RFE's. That didn't fix the problem.

Boss-man tried sending the truck to the dealer. What a useless waste of time that was... I went with Boss-man and explained the whole thing to the service writer. When they phoned us back to give us their "expert" advice they said they needed to pull out the NGK spark plugs we JUST PUT IN and replace them with OEM plugs... Then if that didn't fix it they needed to swap one coil at a time... I saw RED when I heard that!! This customer has spent over $700 on car rentals alone trying to get this fixed. He's a friend of the shop. I feel bad for him and wanted to get it solved as much as he did! And that's what we get from the dealership?? Replace brand new spark plugs??? The tech was trying to quote a "Starcase" bulletin except he didn't read the bulletin! The bulletin showed a case where data like Spark Advance and Target Idle Speed would drop completely out and then after that engine RPM dropped to zero. The bulletin said it would be followed by an ASD code or some kind of loss of communication code. The bulletin then said to check condition of spark plugs. Check for wear on the porcelain and electrode and look for differences between plugs. It also said that sometimes the vehicles didn't like aftermarket plugs. The tech did a capture of Spark Advance, Min TPS 1 Volts and Target Idle Speed. Nothing else. Not even engine RPM!! The tech then saw something that he thought was a tiny dropout so he jumped on the bulletin. Especially after he saw it had aftermarket plugs. He seemed to completely ignore the fact that it never set any codes, never misfired and had brand new plugs!!

Boss-man took the truck for a drive and thought it might be engine related. He was convinced from day one that it was the electric throttle body so he got one for me to throw in. No surprise it wasn't the problem. As again... no codes! But the old one was ultra gummed up and it ran better with the new one so I kept it in. I wondered maybe a cam or crank sensor might be glitching causing it to stall. There were no codes so they shouldn't be dropping out completely but maybe gave a garbage signal that threw out the timing so much causing it to stall. I did numerous data captures when it stalled and every time the cam-crank sync PIDS always said In Sync (N'Sync :silly: ). But still to rule that out I scoped them during a stall and they stayed good.

The power feed for the injectors and coils is provided by the ASD circuit inside the TIPM. That circuit is monitored by both the TIPM and ECU. There is no way that circuit could go bad causing a stall without setting a code. Plus there is an ASD Circuit Sense PID and every time it stayed High until after the stall. These are two wire coils with the control wire going directly to the ECU so the computer sees very easily whether each coil is firing or not. There is no way plugs could cause an abrupt stall without setting a code. Let alone brand new plugs when the engine ran like a top! So to totally confirm everything I put a voltage and current trace on the power feed to the coils and injectors. No surprise it stayed good during a stall.

So I'm looking for something that could cause a vehicle to abruptly stall. The list of possibilities become very small when you consider the truck runs great, idles great, starts right back up after a stall and has no codes. All I could come up with is either the air supply is being cut off, computer is losing cam or crank, computer itself is glitching and not commanding coils/injectors or the power feed to the coils/injectors is dropping out. I don't even think the MDS (Multiple Displacement System) solenoids could cause this without setting a code and without causing the truck to run like crap at times. As for the air side of things; there are no codes and it has a new throttle body so I'm done with that. I verified cam and crank signals remain good with the scope. I also verified the computer by the current trace on the power feed. Pulses were there until it fully stalled. The power feed was verified with both the voltage and current traces. So at this point I can't think of a single engine related thing that could cause these symptoms. Back to the tranny it is...

Even though the transmission solenoid pack was only a couple months old and was a new dealer part, I changed it with another one. I also changed both filters. Filled it up with fluid and all the problems went away! Not only was there no more stalling but it was smooth as butter coming to a stop and taking off. Even the creep was back to normal! And those !#@$ dealer spark plugs stayed in their boxes!!

So ya, if you have a Chrysler vehicle with a 45RFE or 545RFE tranny in it that's stalling at a stop without setting a code then at least check tranny fluid level and make sure it's not aerated. Apparently a bunch of people had this same problem where all they had to do was fix a trans leak and top up the fluid level.

I saw this on youtube. This is exactly what my truck was doing. The guy on youtube probably had the same problem but I read he sold his after a few grand in repair bills and still having the same issue.

2006 Dodge Ram Stalling Issue