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Misfire COP Injector Scope Waveform CRANK NO START

  • Carlssonlove
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1 year 2 months ago #66424 by Carlssonlove
Hi all, i am having a question regarding below pattern of injector and backprobe COP. Story goes like this (it's a motorcycle 2 cylinders in line) Engine started fine, ran idle fine until warmed up and started to misfire and difficult start to no start, first day. Following days starting got worse and worse to the point won't sstart at all, not even with the injectors removed ans sprayed brake cleaner directly into the intake (did that on multiple bikes with no problem all succesful).
Now, my pattern were looking good first day, but after warming up ignition patter was going off. 
CKP signal looks good and is within specs (i won't rule out it might be faulty thogh, because bike won't start when trying with spray cleaner)
BUT i also am thinking this might be an ECU problem
Ground was directly to battery terminal and terminal scrubed and cleaned fresh metal.
Would highly appreciate some advices.
I attached pics when situation occured in filename                  

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  • Tyler
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1 year 2 months ago #66449 by Tyler
I don't know jack about bikes.   But I can take a shot at the waveforms.

The secondary ignition during the no start looks like there's no spark taking place anywhere in the system. I usually see that kind of gradual, downward slope after the firing line on systems that have a secondary short to ground.

What kind of ignition system does this use?

Do you have a capture of the coil current ramp and secondary pickup during the no start?

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1 year 2 months ago #66451 by Carlssonlove
Replied by Carlssonlove on topic Misfire COP Injector Scope Waveform CRANK NO START
That was my thought also because bike runned aprox 30-40 min idle and started to get worse and worse, until the point of NO crank the next day when the starter relay failed permanently. Changed the relay, and it cranks but still no start BUT trying old method spark gap leght with a screwdriver on the chassis it's so powerful it electrifies my hand if i'm not careful BUT from the graphics, to me it would look that the spark is happening BEFOR INJECTION and i am thinking this might be the reason why would be crank no start even if removed the injectors and sprayed directly into the intake.
I don't have current ramp and secondary in the same time, i was also cursing because i don;t initially i thought it s a gas feed problem (most of the time that;s what we see) and blaming the injectors or pump so didn't think to do this when the bike was running and beggining to stall..BUT i will do it the next day like this with CRANK NO START.
Bike had a corroded STVA motor so bad was like sitting unde ther water..and now i am thinking it might be the ECU beause that sealing gel on the connector side it has some craks that look kind of deep even thogh they're very thin but if i stick my finder they go apart pretty easy.

ALSO when bike began to stall after warming up, and now when crank no start, the injector hump was gone and doesn't flicker any test ligh led/bulb. This can be seen in the graphics, this one below. The issue started on the RH cylinder first, injector hump gone and slowly was from a nice idle to a boggling and no start in the end.

www.scannerdanner.com/media/kunena/attac.../injCOPwontstart.png

I won't rule out any ground issue because of the condition the bike is, and ALSO because i took of the main ground from Bat to Motor to clean the terminal for better contact point and after that problems became permanent and the Starter relay issue happened.

Customer's initial claim was to another repair shop that bike wouldn't rev past 3-5 krpm, and after warming up bike was raising idle by itself. Let it cool down and came to normal but was manageable and rideble in those conditions. Took it to the other shop, got it in a worse condition from there, wouldn't start easy or after 2-3 miles bike was shutting off and no start again.
I think the other shop wouldn't want to mess with it becaus it's a tuner shop (pretty reputable around here) and claimed he knows the bike because had a broken water pump, flooded the engine and hitting the crankcase, which i confirm about the failing pump because it had chocolate espresso like into the airbox, but no cracked crankcase

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