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LEAN on both banks, SPEED DENSITY system
- IaintYerPaw82
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1 year 6 months ago #65490
by IaintYerPaw82
LEAN on both banks, SPEED DENSITY system was created by IaintYerPaw82
Hey gang, this is my first post here. ive got a 2007 Dodge Nitro with a 3.7L (speed density system) that has excessive positive long term fuel trim numbers(14-17%) at idle on both banks. Short terms stay below +5%. I have checked fuel pressure, fuel condition, MAP, BARO, IAT, O2 and ECT sensor functionality and rationality. None of these indicate an issue. I can induce a rich condition (propane) or lean condition (removing vacuum line @ intake) and the fuel trims/o2 sensors respond appropriately. I installed a manual vacuum gauge to the intake to verify MAP readings as well. Initially i sprayed the intake and surrounding area with brake cleaner while watching fuel trims and O2 readings and found 2 vacuum leaks: at the PCV elbow and at the intake manifold gasket on the drivers side. I replaced these items and reset fuel trims and monitored scan tool data as before; this time, the fuel trim numbers gradually rose to about the same level of positive fuel trims as before, though not nearly as fast. While driving, these numbers are well within where they should be (+/- 10%). Considering this, im inclined to believe there is still a vacuum leak. I once again sprayed the intake and surrounding area with brake cleaner and whenever im spraying the back right corner of the intake manifold on the drivers side(basically on the EGR), fuel trims go very negative. I investigated the area and for the life of me i cant find the source of the leak. i removed the EGR to inspect, and i saw no problems. i even removed the EGR line to the intake and capped off the hole in the manifold to eliminate that as a source of a leak, but still nothing. i capped off the PCV valve and PCV hose with similar results. As i understand it, speed density fuel trims arent affected by air leaks (thats what i was taught anyway), but that doesnt seem to be the case here, as removing a vacuum line from the intake immediately causes the STFT and O2s to go positve, more than they already are. Whatever the issue is, its something that effects the entire engine, such as fuel supply or air intake, but im just not seeing it. Any help is appreciated.
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- bills4065
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1 year 5 months ago #65557
by bills4065
Replied by bills4065 on topic LEAN on both banks, SPEED DENSITY system
Does vehicle idle higher than it did before your problem started?
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- IaintYerPaw82
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1 year 5 months ago #65647
by IaintYerPaw82
Replied by IaintYerPaw82 on topic LEAN on both banks, SPEED DENSITY system
no, the idle hasnt changed at all that ive noticed
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1 year 5 months ago #65659
by bills4065
Replied by bills4065 on topic LEAN on both banks, SPEED DENSITY system
Again, spray propane in the back right corner of the intake manifold on drivers side and watch your stft on both banks. If go very negative, you have found your problem. You have an intake manifold gasket leak.
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- IaintYerPaw82
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1 year 5 months ago - 1 year 5 months ago #65660
by IaintYerPaw82
Replied by IaintYerPaw82 on topic LEAN on both banks, SPEED DENSITY system
ive already replaced the intake manifold gasket for that reason. what i dont understand is, if i can spray brake cleaner on this one particular spot and the fuel trims go negative, that indicates a leak...but my fuel trim numbers at idle are high; the PCM is adding fuel to correct for a lean condition. Speed density equipped engines typically run rich if theres a vacuum leak, since the PCM sees less air in the manifold and increases injector PW. Speed density engines typically arent affected by intake manifold leaks (so ive read) other than maybe an increased idle, so if my intake really was leaking, should my fuel trims not be negative, instead of positve??
Last edit: 1 year 5 months ago by IaintYerPaw82.
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1 year 5 months ago #65666
by bills4065
Replied by bills4065 on topic LEAN on both banks, SPEED DENSITY system
If the following is still true- LTFT is 14-17% on both banks at idle. While driving numbers are well within +/- 10%, I would personally get a hold of a smoke test machine and smoke test the vehicle.
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