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Fuel trims

  • Vincent valentine
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1 year 8 months ago #64606 by Vincent valentine
Fuel trims was created by Vincent valentine
Hi everyone
I Have a Suzuki grand vitara ( it was a chevy tracker in the states) 2 liters 1999 but i dont think that matters much. That being said, i was checking the fuel trims the other day and at idle they were fine +-3% but once i step on the pedal they go negative quite a lot (-10/-15).
Went for a drive and at WOT trims were 0 but as soon as i step out of it they went negative. Any idea what could cause it?
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​Yellow line is throtle
Red line is long fuel trim
Blue line is rpm
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1 year 8 months ago #64608 by Noah
Replied by Noah on topic Fuel trims
Could be nothing. You need to also take short term fuel trim into account. I wouldn't chase -10% personally,(especially if there is no code or driveability complaint) -15% is pushing it, but if the STFT is for example +5 while LTFT is -15, total trim would be -10 and perfectly normal.

"Ground cannot be checked with a 10mm socket"

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1 year 8 months ago #64609 by Vincent valentine
Replied by Vincent valentine on topic Fuel trims
Was checking the trims and they are all mostly negative
What bothers me is why at WOT trims are 0 and everywhere else except at idle are quite negative.

Blue line is short trim
Yellow line is long trim
Red line is the sum of both

Red line goes from 0 to -20
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1 year 8 months ago #64610 by bills4065
Replied by bills4065 on topic Fuel trims
I would find the fuel pressure specs and do a fuel pressure check.

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1 year 8 months ago #64613 by Vincent valentine
Replied by Vincent valentine on topic Fuel trims
Fuel pressure is within specs
Maf brand new and reading well
Vacuum check also fine
O2 sensor good as well
Could a dirty injector cause that problem? Or it will tend to go positive?

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1 year 8 months ago #64614 by bills4065
Replied by bills4065 on topic Fuel trims
I think this is a mechanical return fuel system..Is your pressure regulator on the return line? If it is, pull vacuum hose off and ensure no fuel is there.

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1 year 8 months ago #64615 by Vincent valentine
Replied by Vincent valentine on topic Fuel trims
Yes it's in the return line

And you mean to check if there's no fuel on the vacuum hose? If thats the case there's not 


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1 year 8 months ago #64616 by bills4065
Replied by bills4065 on topic Fuel trims
Good, no fuel. Diaphragm is good. Since we are right here, I would put pressure tester back on and disconnect vacuum line. Fuel pressure should increase.

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1 year 8 months ago - 1 year 8 months ago #64618 by Vincent valentine
Replied by Vincent valentine on topic Fuel trims
Fuel pressure is good. It's on the lower side of the specs. If vacuum is disconnected it increases about 5 psi so the regulator is ok. Thought it could be a clogged cat or muffler but did a back pressure test and pressure was fine 
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Last edit: 1 year 8 months ago by Vincent valentine.

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1 year 8 months ago #64619 by bills4065
Replied by bills4065 on topic Fuel trims
I think I would do a wide open throttle run and only graph the oxygen sensors for their reaction at a wide open throttle run. I would not worry about the fuel trims on this run. After this, figure out what my next step would be after seeing O2 responses. This is just what I would do.

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1 year 8 months ago - 1 year 8 months ago #64621 by Vincent valentine
Replied by Vincent valentine on topic Fuel trims
At wide open o2 sensor goes full rich (about 850mv)
Fuel trims at 0
 
Last edit: 1 year 8 months ago by Vincent valentine.

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1 year 8 months ago #64622 by bills4065
Replied by bills4065 on topic Fuel trims
Starting to look like maybe a leaking injector or injectors. What do you think? I am thinking some others will step in with their thoughts.

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1 year 8 months ago #64623 by Vincent valentine
Replied by Vincent valentine on topic Fuel trims
That's the only thing left to check but i don't have a place to check them nearby. Want to take them out and flow some carb cleaner on them to see if it helps.
Bad thing is that i can only find chinese injectors new

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1 year 8 months ago #64625 by bills4065
Replied by bills4065 on topic Fuel trims
@Vincent valentine-just thinking out loud here. You did say this car had a mass airflow sensor. Just confirming.

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1 year 8 months ago #64626 by Vincent valentine
Replied by Vincent valentine on topic Fuel trims
Yeah and its reading fine

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1 year 8 months ago #64629 by bills4065
Replied by bills4065 on topic Fuel trims
The only other thing I can think of is sticking pcv valve or purge valve stuck open, but would think either of these would set a code.

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1 year 8 months ago #64632 by Vincent valentine
Replied by Vincent valentine on topic Fuel trims
Took pcv out, cleaned it and blow air through it in both directions. Working fine
Evap valve also working fine

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1 year 8 months ago - 1 year 8 months ago #64635 by bills4065
Replied by bills4065 on topic Fuel trims
Just curious why you replaced the mass air flow sensor? Was it because of the negative trim issues?
If not, maybe put it back on and see if anything changes. Other than that, I can not see anything else to look at except injectors.
The car probably has been running like this for  a while, has your oil been changed recently?
Last edit: 1 year 8 months ago by bills4065. Reason: additional question.

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1 year 8 months ago #64636 by Vincent valentine
Replied by Vincent valentine on topic Fuel trims
Last maf was bad. Car didnt even run. Changed it and run good.
Changed oil 1.500kms ago (1.000 miles aprox).
Oil has fuel smell but trims at idle are fine. If it was oil dilution shouldn't it affect trims at idle as well?

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1 year 8 months ago #64638 by bills4065
Replied by bills4065 on topic Fuel trims
Vincent- wow, here is everything you have checked: fuel pressure regulator ok. New mass air flow sensor,
O2 sensors okay - pcv sytem checked out. Only thing not looked at are the injectors. as far as slight fuel smell with oil, I do not know if it would affect your trims so negatively at higher loads and rpm. perhaps another forum member has seen this condition before and can weigh in with any other suggeston.

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