Help us help you. By posting the year, make, model and engine near the beginning of your help request, followed by the symptoms (no start, high idle, misfire etc.) Along with any prevalent Diagnostic Trouble Codes, aka DTCs, other forum members will be able to help you get to a solution more quickly and easily!

Appreciate Some Help Interpreting my Scan Data

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1 year 1 month ago #60588 by Clayton
I have a 2012 Ford Mustang 3.7 liter V6 Premium Manual Transmission with 99,000 miles (159,000 kms) and I'm using the OBD Fusion App with a Bluetooth Dongle (I think VeePeak) to scan. I bought the car last August, 2012 and the check engine light came on in September :(. It was a P0301 (cylinder 1 misfire) code, which seems to have been corrected by having the spark plugs changed. This led me to buy the scanner and try to learn how to use it.

Some things I've discovered are that the Long Term Fuel Trims are high; Bank 1 was 20% and Bank 2 was 14% in September. They improved to B1 13% and B2 5% in January after the fuel injectors were cleaned. It still has terrible gas mileage 12 mpg (19.6 litres per 100 kms) city. The CEL came on again in February for a P0137 ((O2) Sensor Circuit Low Voltage (Bank 1 Sensor 2)); I cleared this code to see if it would come back and it hasn't.

The little I think I know about OBDII Scan data is coming from helpful people on the internet and YouTube like Scanner Danner. I'd really appreciate if someone would take a look at some Data Logging I did and possibly tell what they see. Some oddities I think I see are the Fuel System 1 Status = 4 sometimes affecting other sensors and the Rear O2 sensors read Lean on one Bank and Rich on the other.

Here's a link to a Google Drive file with scan data from a drive around my neighbourhood earlier this month and I attached a graph of some O2 Sensor data. I'd be happy to do more per anyone's recommendations.
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1i-C3mvE2...0&rtpof=true&sd=true

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1 year 1 month ago #60591 by Clayton
Update - The P0137 Code came back, so I made an appointment with the Service Shop for Wednesday. I'll post an update after that appointment, in case anyone is interested.

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1 year 1 month ago #60594 by Paul P.
I did some graphing, I won't post any till you report back.

However the Bank 1 Sensor 2 O2 is reading lower(Leaner) than Bank 2.

But most importantly your MAF is reporting quite low, for example at an RPM of 3250 it reports only 37 g/s, this should be well over 90 g/s.

To be sure can you post a log of;

RPM
MAF
Upstream Currents
Downstream Voltages
Absolute Load or Calculated Load
ALL fuel TRIMS
Throttle Position

Need maximun rpms during this test drive, doesn't need to be long just a couple of Wide open Throttle runs.

Does this vehicle have an aftermarket Cold Air intake system by chance?

Never stop Learning.
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1 year 1 month ago #60598 by Clayton
Thanks for reviewing this Paul. I'll log the data you requested in the morning. Yes it does have a JLT cold air intake filter and tube. I used the K&N recharger kit to clean and oil the filter shortly after I bought the car.

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1 year 1 month ago #60607 by Clayton
Here's the link to a file with Paul's requested data logging:
drive.google.com/file/d/1JsmwwI8_3zfsKfY...fPX/view?usp=sharing

If I missed something or you'd like more, let me know. Somewhat interesting, the Check Engine Light turned off during this drive.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Paul P.

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1 year 1 month ago #60608 by Paul P.
Ok good, the Calc load is hitting 96%. This rules out any airflow issues.

So if it is not air, then it is fuel related.

But first , you must verfify ALL the O2's especially the pre-cat are capable of responded RICH/LEAN.

You do have a bank to bank imbalance, but at this point it could be O2 related.

Your fuel trims are "linear", this means the problem is "fixed" affecting all engine rpm ranges.

A good clue was when you said you cleaned the injectors and the Trims improved.

This leaves a few item left to test.

1. Fuel presuure Spec is 51-60 PSI. This should not drop at Wide open throttle.
2. Fuel Volume, this pump needs to put out at least 0.5-0.7 gpm

Remember, the pressure can be good, but there is insufficient flow.

If the O2 Feedback system checks, you have good airflow, good pump pressure AND flow, that only leaves the Injectors.

Select ONLY the Data pids I requested on a WOT run after you fixed your P0137, thanks.

Reason is, Global OBD is slow, you'll get more accurate data with the least amount of PIDS selected.

Never stop Learning.
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1 year 1 month ago #60610 by Clayton
Thanks for following up on this. I wasn't able to verify that the O2's are adequately capable of responding to Rich/Lean with the scanner and increasing RPMs to create rich and pumping the brake pedal to create lean, as I've read on the internet and seen on YouTube. They all did react but like the previous data, not necessarily like I expected. I have a multimeter but not the extras like back probes to test them. I'll ask the shop to check them out tomorrow along with the fuel pressure and volume, since I'll have it there for the P0137. Which popped back on while I was trying to verify the O2 sensors. I'll let you know what they tell me.

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1 year 1 month ago #60626 by Clayton
Somewhat of an update - the service shop I use doesn't have the gear to test fuel pressure and performs limited OBD diagnostics. The technician did tell me that the O2 sensors are all working. So he cleared the code and recommended a shop that is more involved in tuning vehicles. His thought being that the cold air intake might be throwing the stock tune off. He also recommended switching to premium fuel.

I'll call the other shop but I don't expect to have anymore updates for awhile. I'll also try to figure out where and if my car has a fuel pressure test valve to attach a gauge.

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1 year 1 month ago #60629 by juergen.scholl

Somewhat of an update - the service shop I use doesn't have the gear to test fuel pressure

:silly: :silly:

You MUST be kidding, aren't you?

An expert is someone who knows each time more on each time less, until he finally knows absolutely everything about absolutely nothing.

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1 year 1 month ago #60631 by Clayton
"You MUST be kidding, aren't you?"

They might be ;) but I'm not :lol:

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1 year 1 month ago #60632 by Paul P.

His thought being that the cold air intake might be throwing the stock tune off.


Negative.

Calculated LOAD Value (PID 04)

The OBD regulations previously defined CLV as:

(current airflow / peak airflow @sea level) * (BARO @ sea level / BARO) * 100%

Your Calc. Ld hit 96 Percent, this means your engine breathed in 96 Percent of the air it should have as compared to the same test conditions from the factory on a dynometer.

You DO NOT have a breathing issue. The PCM in your case "IS" happy with the cold air intake.

There is no "test port" on the fuel rail, a tee kit with adapters is required.

But remember, you can have good pressure, but not enough flow.

Because you fuel trims are "linear", are the correct injectors on this vehicle? They may have been changed. This is the FOMOCO Part #BR3Z9F593B.

Find a reputable shop in your area if you can, this really isn't a difficult one to deal with.

A test that would put the nail in the coffin for this vehicle is the propane enrichment test.

Use a propane bottle with the torch head removed and a long length of rubber hose.

Insert the rubber hose into the intake airstream. Go for a ride and monitor the trims.

At a steady cruising speed, introduce propane into the engine and see if those trims and engine performance improve.

Never stop Learning.

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1 year 1 month ago #60633 by Clayton
Thanks again Paul. I didn't bother mentioning to the technician that you had eliminated airflow as the problem, since they weren't really going any further with the diagnosis. I looked at the fuel rail this afternoon and thought that it probably would require a tee. I'll call the shop they recommended tomorrow to find out if they actually do Long Term Fuel trim diagnosis. If not, I may pick up the necessary tools and gauges to test as you recommend.

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1 year 1 month ago #60834 by MarkBeck101
You have a V6 does it have two CATs and 4 HEGOs? P0137 is Oxygen Sensor Bank 1 Downstream (sensor 2, or HO2S-12) circuit low voltage. Just swap the downstream HEGOs and see if the problem follows the HEGO. P0157 the same code for HO2S-22.

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1 year 1 month ago #60838 by Clayton
Yes it has two CATs and four oxygen sensors, which I think are heated. I like your recommendation of swapping the downstream O2s, Mark but don't have the necessary gear or experience, especially if they're seized. I located a mechanic who seems willing to work with me to figure out this lean condition on Bank 1. He suggested replacing the Bank 1 downstream sensor rather than swapping, since I'd be paying him twice if it has indeed failed. So, I've ordered two new downstream NTK O2's from Rock Auto because their site recommended replacing them as a pair. While the mechanic was inspecting my car, he discovered the PCV solenoid was stuck open. I bought a new one from the dealer and was at least able to replace that myself. Replacing the PCV doesn't seem to have had any effect on the B1S2 low voltage and I can't say that I've noticed an improvement in the fuel trims because the mechanic reset them. Just before I replaced the PCV, Bank 1 LTFT was 5.47% and Bank 2 was 3.12%; two day's driving after I replaced the PCV, Bank 1 LTFT was 6.25% and Bank 2 was 3.91%. They were 14.84% and 6.25% before the mechanic reset them.

It'll be a couple of weeks before the O2 sensors arrive and get replaced and I'll update on that. I have a question that I should have asked in my original post. My scan results show Fuel System 1 Status = 1, 2 and 4. I assume 1 is Open Loop; 2 is Closed Loop but I have only seen one mention online of what 4 means and it's "open loop (driving conditions)" ( www.hondata.com/help/flashpro/index.html?fuel_status.htm ). I've heard of Open Loop Wide Open Throttle but sometimes it equals 4 just gradually accelerating to 2,500 rpms and the Upstream O2 sensors spike up to 4 (ma) when the Fuel System Status = 4. So my questions are: Is this Fuel System Status = 4 normal and does the Fuel System Status = 4 cause the Upstream O2 sensor spike up to 4 (ma) or is the O2 sensor spike to 4 causing the Fuel System Status = 4?

Thanks to all who read to the end :)

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1 year 1 month ago #60850 by MarkBeck101
Yes the HEGOs are probably seized. If you have the proper HEGO socket they usually come off with no real problem if put on correctly using anti-seize. You can add a little heat with a butane torch, it doesn't really need a lot and they unscrew rather easily. So to install the HEGOs I usually add a little more anti-seize than what you would see on a new one. I chase the threads on the bung, sometimes using a little cutting fluid depending on what shape they are in, and then I rinse with brake clean, wait for it to evaporate and then screw in the HEGO and only snug them down to deform the crush washer or a similar torque which is not much.

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6 months 2 weeks ago #63283 by Clayton
It's been awhile since I've provided an update on this issue. Replacing the two rear O2 sensors had no affect on the fuel trims or the B1S2 low voltage. I tested the fuel pressure and it appeared to be good. I took the car to another shop to get their diagnosis. They determined there was a leak in the down pipe after the bank one exhaust manifold and that the bank one CAT was shot. The OEM CATs are encased in a Y shaped pipe and at least one manifold bolt/stud broke during removal, so I had both manifolds, CATs and Y assembly exhaust replaced. The Service Advisor told me it may take up to 1,000 km (600 mi) to relearn the fuel trims. I've driven about 85% of that now.
The B1S2 low voltage has been resolved and the misfires appear reduced; the CEL hasn't come on but the long term fuel trims are still high (B1 15% B2 13%) and last week the car went into limp mode and the wrench light came on. I turned the engine off; restarted it and no wrench or limp mode on the drive home or during the few short drives since. 
I did a Diagnostic report with my OBD Fusion Scan App when I got home after the Limp mode incident and it listed some Freeze Frame data:  "A freeze frame was found but the vehicle has no stored trouble codes. This indicates that the freeze frame could contain out-of-date and inaccurate information." Freeze Frame DTC P2111 (which I've read is Throttle Actuator Control System - Stuck open). I've also read that it might be a problem with the Throttle Position Sensor and not the Throttle Body but the TPS in the S197 Mustang is part of the Throttle Body assembly, so I'd have to replace the whole thing either way.
I pressed and released the accelerator pedal slowly to the floor and back and the OBD Fusion App live data didn't indicate any obvious issues with the Absolute Throttle Position, Absolute Throttle Position B, Accelerator Pedal Position D or E, Commanded Throttle Actuator Control or TPS1 but my knowledge and this app's ability are limited.

I've pasted most of the Freeze Frame data below. Does anything from this data point to an issue with the throttle body or throttle position sensor?
 
Freeze frame DTC P2111
Fuel system 1 status 2
Calculated load value 59.61 %
Engine coolant temperature 73 °C
Short term fuel % trim - Bank 1 7.03 %
Long term fuel % trim - Bank 1 15.62 %
Short term fuel % trim - Bank 2 6.25 %
Long term fuel % trim - Bank 2 14.06 %
Engine RPM 2118 RPM
Vehicle speed 31 km/h
Ignition timing advance for #1 cylinder 41 deg
Intake air temperature 13 °C
Mass air flow rate 46 g/s
Absolute throttle position 27.45 %
O2 voltage (Bank 1, Sensor 2) 0.77 V
O2 voltage (Bank 2, Sensor 2) 0.76 V
Time since engine start 278 sec
Commanded evaporative purge 54.9 %
Fuel level input 75.29 %
Number of warm-ups since DTCs cleared 49
Distance traveled since DTCs cleared 865 km
Evap system vapor pressure -901.75 Pa
Barometric pressure 88 kPa
O2 sensor lambda wide range (current probe) (Bank 1, Sensor 1) 0.998
O2 sensor current wide range (Bank 1, Sensor 1) -0.031 mA
O2 sensor lambda wide range (current probe) (Bank 2, Sensor 1) 0.985
O2 sensor current wide range (Bank 2, Sensor 1) -0.133 mA
Catalyst temperature (Bank 1 Sensor 1) 629.3 °C
Catalyst temperature (Bank 2 Sensor 1) 629.3 °C
Control module voltage 14.09 V
Absolute load value 35.29 %
Fuel/Air commanded equivalence ratio 0.99
Relative throttle position 15.29 %
Ambient air temperature 13 °C
Absolute throttle position B 42.75 %
Accelerator pedal position D 25.1 %
Accelerator pedal position E 12.55 %
Commanded throttle actuator control 14.9 %
 

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