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Ecm??

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1 year 4 months ago #58931 by Beanz77
Ecm?? was created by Beanz77
First thanks Scanner Danner for your videos!!

2003 Ford Windstar 3.8l

Car was in a hit and run. Guy smashed front drive side. Was able to drive it home. Needs new front end. Since then it sat in the back yard for 3 years. Finally getting to working on it. So wanted to get it running first.

This is what I have done

Dropped tank and cleaned replaced fuel pump and filter Cleaned the lines.

New Fuel injectors new Inertia switch new Fuel pressure regulator
New intake manifold gasket and bolts
New spark plugs, wires, ignition coil pack, Ignition switch
New starter New battery, New relays

I have no crank and tank is not getting pressure.

Obd2 have a cheap $60 but getting a won't connect error

Not sure what is going on and tired of throwing money at it thinking that it's this or that. Any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you

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1 year 4 months ago #58934 by Beanz77
Replied by Beanz77 on topic Ecm??
When the key is in the on position the fuel light is on the battery light the oil light the brake light the tire light the check engine light and the door light

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1 year 4 months ago #58935 by Beanz77
Replied by Beanz77 on topic Ecm??
Just tested all the fuses and all are good tested the relay female slot for starter and have power to it.

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1 year 4 months ago - 1 year 4 months ago #58936 by Paul P.
Replied by Paul P. on topic Ecm??
No-Crank.

Let's start here.

Key On Engine Off (KOEO)

1. Does the security light prove out after 3 seconds ( goes out )?
2. Do you see a check engine light?

You'll need a test lamp for the next set of testing. Here is the starting diagram.



By the looks of the diagram, the best information can be obtained right from the starter relay.





Remove the Starter relay. Be certain to identify the correct position of all the pins, see the attached pinout.


With a test lamp connected to the battery negative. Let's test for power.

Does the lamp light when touching the positive post?

3. Insert the test lamp in pin 30 gently, does the lamp light?
4. Insert the test lamp in pin 86 gently, with the key in the run position you should have the test lamp lit in Park and in Neutral.

If the lamp lights for the above tests, let's now check to see if the PCM will ground the relay.

Connect the test lamp to the battery positive. Touch the negative post it should light.

5. Insert the test lamp into Pin 85 gently, put the key in the crank position, and the test lamp should light.

If you're good so far, try a different relay ( one that is known good ).

If it is still a no-crank, insert a fused jumper wire between pins 30 and 87. This will bypass the relay altogether and the starter should energize.

If still a no-crank, further testing will need to be performed at the starter motor.

Let us know how you made out!

Never stop Learning.
Last edit: 1 year 4 months ago by Paul P..
The following user(s) said Thank You: Noah

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1 year 4 months ago #58937 by Beanz77
Replied by Beanz77 on topic Ecm??
OK so I did some of the tests you suggested

1. Theft light blinks does not go out
2. Check engine light does not go off stays on
3. Tested pin 30 lights up red
4. Tested pin 86 does not light up
5. Hooked up test light to positive post lights up green
6. Had someone turn key as if they were starting the car and tested pin 85 and it does not light up.

Didn't go any further once I noticed I should of stopped at step 4. When the light did not light up.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Paul P.

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1 year 4 months ago - 1 year 4 months ago #58938 by Paul P.
Replied by Paul P. on topic Ecm??

1. Theft light blinks does not go out


This is why the ECM will not provide a ground to pin 85 at the relay.

You have a PATS security key issue.

Looks like you have two problems, Pin 86 should have lit the test lamp in Park or Neutral with the KOEO, regardless of a PATS issue.

If you have the spare key try it and see if the security light goes out, otherwise, you could have a bad PATS Transceiver module or bad wire between the transceiver and the PCM, which wasn't too uncommon, especially with tilt steering columns.

Never stop Learning.
Last edit: 1 year 4 months ago by Paul P.. Reason: added more
The following user(s) said Thank You: Monde

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1 year 4 months ago #58941 by Beanz77
Replied by Beanz77 on topic Ecm??
Well when I was under the dash I found the GPS tracker thing. I took it off since I paid the car off. I hooked the wires back up matching the colors of the wires could that maybe something to do with it ? It was under the steering column.
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1 year 4 months ago #58942 by Paul P.
Replied by Paul P. on topic Ecm??
Maybe the nice folks who installed the gps tracker would be so kind to remove it for you.

It probably has some sort of ECM disabler too.

Good Luck!

Never stop Learning.

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1 year 4 months ago #58950 by Beanz77
Replied by Beanz77 on topic Ecm??
Yes that would be the best thing to do. Not sure if your from Denver CO. But the place I had bought the car from "Best Car Buys" has been out of business for about 5 years now. So no way to get that done anymore

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1 year 4 months ago #58968 by Beanz77
Replied by Beanz77 on topic Ecm??
Ok so i only have 1 key. Other key wife lost. Neither have chips on them. Would I need to get another set of keys and the ignition? To fix what you said above ?

Also dont know if this helps or not

so the theft light blinks with the key out of the ignition as well. I think it has always done that.

I have rewired the Trax 2.r pass time back to the way it was. It has a female relay housing attached to it as well. So I tested this as well. Its a 5 pin relay and the male relay also has a metal post with a hole sticking from the top. Like it should be grounded and screwed into something.

OK test test light on positive terminal. 87 85 turns green with the key on on postion. But when I touch 85 the radio would stop working.

Test with key in Run postion does same same green to 87 85

Test with key off 87 and 85 light green

Test with test light to negative terminal

On postion no lights

Off postion no lights

Run postion lights red on post 86 and 30

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1 year 4 months ago #58978 by Beanz77
Replied by Beanz77 on topic Ecm??
Ok so I replied on here buy not sure if it went to you or not. OK so I researched on the pats system. Looks like it's the pats2. Says I need both keys i don't have the main key. So im either have to get a new one cut and programmed or buy a new cylinder and keys and then reprogram it to the car. And today I'm going check then transmitter and see if that works or not. That would be done with the test light is that correct?

And thanks for the help you been able to get me farther then I have been and I'm not just throwing money at it anymore and just guessing on the problem.

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1 year 3 months ago #59026 by Beanz77
Replied by Beanz77 on topic Ecm??
Mondo thank you again for all the help you have gave me I really do appreciate it.

Have a Lil more info if you can supply some knowledge for me please.

So I have the 1 key not the main key. Does have black housing but looks different then others I have seen.

So I need to get a copy of that key made but on a main key and then have that key programed to the transceiver and then use the 2 keys to reset the pats system? I was going call a locksmith out to do it, but I'll make sure they know what's going on And make sure they can don't first. Does this sound correct with this part of my problem?

The 86 relay have not for to yet been trying to figure the key part out first so that would be next.

Again thank you for all your help sorry to be a pain in the butt!!

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1 year 3 months ago #59114 by Dtnel
Replied by Dtnel on topic Ecm??
Any capable locksmith should be able to do the programming. Ask them if they can do "all keys lost" on a car as if they can do that they should be able to add a key. It's a 8 cut key with a Max Depth of 5 cuts.

IF they've been around longer than me as I only dove into keys 3yrs or so ago then they should be able to have you send a photo, cut a key then you'd be set.

If you have a scan tool that'll do it as alot will for that YMM then you can get a chip key, go in and add the key.

Against my better judgement I will say there's a key service online where they'll send you a OBD module to add it. I hate these services as they dip into locksmithes pockets, ruin market prices then local locksmiths have to take the brunt of it from the customers next time we charge a living wage price as in market price vs these fly by night outfits that don't tell you that you may not have everything you need just because

A capable LockSmith should be able to add a key for $95 - $105 give or take with or without taxes as tell them you don't need a receipt as some offer cash discounts. I offer them otherwise it's a $3 card fee as that's a pass thru cost of 2.8% plus .40 cents so 3% is fairly fair.

Anyone complains I tell them I came to them and for the same price they can go do ACE Hardware though you have to have the vehicle there and I have my business cards at all the local ACE Hardware stores for AKL "All Keys Lost" customers as otherwise they have to tow their fancy BMW, Chevy, Honda, Toyota, etc, etc to the dealer and pay almost double and I'm not even adding the tow fee in for comparison.

Before you go get a locksmith to add a key you should be able to bypass the starter relay and spin the motor as I have junkers I do keys for.

They get cars deon tow lots so I use my uActivate tool, plug into the relay and energize the starter. IF the starter don't start and you've got power coming from the relay to the starter when you energize the starter then most likely you may have a bad starter. Check for power at the starter as your energizing through the relay using a bypass method with a fused wire as others explained above.

If my junker customers don't see that the engine spins depending on the year make and model they may not even go any further. Some will swap a used starter in there if they have another similar vehicle. On some vehicles I can even do a compression test right from the driver's seat for those junkers to see if they want to spend the time doing that. I use a tool from Automotive test Solutions which is called the e-scan elite.

I do a quick easy compression test after testing the starting system and still get paid whether I cut a key or not and if I cut a key then I don't have to do that test. If they're not sure they have me do the test then I get paid for the test and the key.

Each little task I get paid for.

IF you're not sure if the engine is seized up "bar" the engine over manually then you know.

Also don't forget you may or may not have fusible links.

Sounds as if you threw alot of money at the car before you even figured out if it would crank, aka fired the "parts cannon".
. Regardless of how this turns out just remember next time you have an issue come here first and speak with these guys and gals and get the cheaper method before you throw Parts at it. If the immobilizer/security light is flashing after you put the key in and turn it on then.

Also most of those starter kill devices depending on how they're wired Once you pull them it should be no problem. One thing you can do after rolling the starter and the immobilizer out is if it doesn't get fixed then check the ECM for powers and grounds as if you're getting your powers and grounds make a communication with the ECM it shouldn't be no reason to think shouldn't go.


Being that you said it set for 3 years I would definitely go out and go through it methodically and check all the wire and harnesses even in areas that are covered up that you may not think such as air boxes and stuff like that because if and once you get it running there could be a restriction that causes other issues. Ivan over at Pine Hollow auto diagnostics had one where a critter had moved into a airbox. If I remember correctly I think it was his wife's car.

I'll follow this thread as being it has keys I like to get more involved with keys, immobilizer issues along with module swaps, module replacement, VIN# stuff, some module programming as well along with diagnostics for those systems.

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