Starting out in the automotive industry

As a 31 yr old male, I'm looking to get my foot in the automotive industry.

For the past decade my experience has mostly been in odd jobs here and there and information technology dealing with the diagnosis and repair of computer systems and networks. Until up about 2 years ago I've never worked on my car or anyone else's. Nowadays I can proudly say that I have rebuilt an engine ,can diagnose issues here and there, do some light suspension, and have some solid working knowledge of how automobiles work.

Now I've recently left my job due to repetitive strain injury and hand tendonitis from too much typing. When I am outside doing work where I have full range of motion I do not experience this problem. Also left work due to other personal issues related to the job. I have no problem working outside and getting my hands dirty. In fact I did this for years before officially getting a job in the IT industry

Now that I am away and a free agent I have been offered two jobs as a general service technician working long hours. These places want an average 55 hours a week with pay of about $9 to $11 an hour.
One of which is National Tire and Battery. They stress a productivity pay rate system where you can make commission on the jobs you do. I have no issues with the work just the hours ( and pay at 9 bux) as they all demand full-time dedication.

Of course working IT you tend to get more than that and I don't expect to make as much as I was do to my infancy in this industry. Part the reason I left my last job was also due to work life balance as I have no true desire to submit myself to full-time employment. However a living has to be made and while I am somewhat knowledgeable of automobiles no place will take me serious without shop experience or ASE certification, so either I submit myself to 55 + hours of low pay just to get shop experience on my resume or I continue to vigorously study and teach myself more Automotive stuff while working a part-time job either doing more physical oriented IT work or a job at Home Depot or something working part time. Then maybe just maybe I can become proficient enough to do work on the side on a larger scale and make money that way, which is what I actually prefer.

I really do see myself pursuing a career in automotive technology and retiring at a late age. What are your thoughts and for the more experienced technicians and even general service technicians on this forum starting out what are your opinions on work and pay as a general service technician for starting out in this field? Is it worth it? Is there another route to go?

Thank goodness for speech to text.

It's one of those catch 22 things...
As an adult, how do you get experience as an automotive technician without having worked in the field, and how do you get decent paying work in the field without prior experience?
That's kind of where I was when I was about 20. Having come from a traditional high school, with no money for college, no automotive experience (like 0 knowledge!) and a piece of shit car that seemed built specifically to promote my failure.
I ended up being offered a job at my local salvage yard after begging the owner to let me take a timing belt tensioner out of the only running Chrysler 3.5l in his yard. He felt bad that I had taken a taxi over there for nothing and offered me a ride home. I told him I'd give him all the money I had on me and walk home after I got the part, but I wasn't leaving without it.
It took me ALL DAY with a pocket full of miscellaneous sockets and an adjustable wrench, but I was determined.
My determination outweighed my obvious lack of skill, and by the end of the day, I was offered a job.
I consider it less than traditional training.
As far as work/life balance, If your life is cars then it's not bad. It's the techs that don't like cars anymore that get burnt out.

$10-$13.00 an hour seems to be the average entry level starting pay. You could always start as a lube tech at a dealership for around $10 and try to climb the ladder from there. At least you have training opportunities available to you, a professional work environment, things like benefits and holidays. You could supplement that with some training from a technical school like Porter and Chester or Wyotech (or whatever is in your area), and get some certifications.

The guys I know making $1000 + a week have MANY years experience working well over 40 hours a week, not to mention a substantial investment in tools.

Of course, my experience isn't exactly typical. There were many days when I first started that I wondered why in the world I would choose to work in the rain and snow busting my hands for minimum wage , when I could make the same money doing a piss poor job making coffee for people at a drive through window.

Thanks for your input. Do you own a shop? Work for someone else? Do work on the side? Just curious.

I work at a small independent repair shop/salvage yard and take on repair and diagnostic work on the side. Nothing major.

Noah is right on about the Catch 22 nature of the industry. In my opinion, there's really no way around putting in a year or two as a general service/lube tech somewhere. This is the only way I know that an owner is gonna let someone play with their customers cars on a larger scale. Between perfecting your skills while working part time in some retail pit, and getting a full time job in the industry, I'd say full time is the ticket.

Getting ASE certified is possible without shop experience, via time at a trade school. I got a two year degree from my local community college in Auto Tech, and it certainly has it's ups and downs. The perception is that earning the degree will prepare you to be a working, productive technician. This couldn't be further from the truth. BUT, it does prepare you to absorb the experience you get on the job in a more useful way. In short, it doesn't pay off immediately, but absolutely does in the long run.

I had some friends in college working for NTB, and they all reported good things. Of course, your experience will vary based on the types of customers in your area, and the people you're working with. Their pay system is somewhat unique, based on a percentage of the total job sale price? As in, if you sell a $1000 job and you're at a 10% commission rate, then you get $100 commission. I'm positive that there are advantages and abuses in this system, as with everything else.

A word about physical issues. I LOVE this job, but it sure isn't easy on the body. I'm 30, and I'm already starting to notice various issues cropping up. Many shop owners and service managers out there aren't behind desks 'cause they got tired of working on cars, they physically just can't do it any more.

I started out in the US Army when I turned eighteen yrs. old. I did not know what career I wanted to pursue . I did not like school much, so that is why I joined, mainly. So the army gives you batteries (not voltage storing type...lol) of tests to see what your three strongest areas are at the present time. I scored about the same at mechanic, electrician and clerical. Well I knew hardly anything about automobiles , other than how to operate one, and really not much about electricity. But I thought that would be cool to go in for mechanic. I was now enlisted with a MOS (job title) 62B10 Heavy Equipment Mechanic.Also I was put into OJT (On JOB Training) right out of basic training. Problem for me was that the Shop or Platoon that I was eventually assigned to was called 'second shop'as far as repairs were concerned. It incorporated services on the equipment along with parts replacement.. Now if I had been assigned to 'first shop, I would of been in the real nitty gritty of total repairs. I mention that part because I never was taught the proper basic fundamentals of electricity being in my shop. Fast forward to after I left the army, got a civilian job at a Independent Firestone Garage. I was hired to do all truck tires repair and or replacements there and on the road. It took about three years of that til the owner thought I had good integrity and offered to have me help other technicians and learn in the shop on a daily basis.He hired another young guy to do the truck tire end. I worked there for fifteen years but still never learned electrical (my fault). Problem with working in a tire type shop like I was at back then is that electrical work usually tied up a bay. They would tell customers to take to the dealer (big mistake). Fast forward twenty-two years to now. For last two years I have seriously been learning and trying to learn and use electrical skills to my advantage. I was really pleased and privileged to have found Paul Danner's channel on youtube.

I absolutely appreciate the feedback so far. I kind of expect there to be physical issues that will crop up sooner or later. In the meanwhile I love the hustle and a$$ busting of manual labor sometimes. That's what I predominantly did before the IT stuff. Now that I've been sitting at a desk for a year-and-a-half essentially trying to escape the grind I've ended up with hand tendonitis and being out of shape. Though i have hand tendonitis twisting ratchets and lifting seems to have no effect on the pain which is a good thing and actually allows me to stretch my hands and fingers when need be.

I'm actually glad to hear something positive about National Tire and Battery. The $9 an hour sounds low especially coming from 17 bucks an hour- But if commission can be made then that'll help me look past the low wage. They did mention that during the interview but just wasn't too sure how much horn tooting they were trying to do

Ps.. Tyler , i sent ya a pm

One of the biggest challenges to this line of work is the amount of $$$ for tools (although I think I have a tool addiction ). One of the best rewards of tis line of work is solving that hard to diagnose problem.

Back when I got into the business I started off busting tires for Sears (yes the department store) I lasted about 2 weeks until I screwed up a $400 (late 80's $$) wheel. I got moved to the Battery/Starting -Charging area of the shop and got a good education in electrical, I even went to a couple of week long classes in California all expenses paid.

I don't know of any other shops that do that kind of training. Most you will learn is just OJT, so don't expect to just be able to jump into this business and make top dollar. You will have to pay your "dues" so to speak.

I've always told my students to expect 1 to 3 years of "paying your dues" before the money starts coming in.
The most important thing for you right now is to get into a shop where you are allowed to do ALL types of repairs, including diagnostic stuff.
It will do you no good to only be a tire and lube guy for a year, then year 2, you're finally doing brake jobs etc.
You'll end up getting trapped in the parts changer mentality and end up not liking your job. Not to mention getting stuck in a low pay bracket with tons of competition.
This is the path most big chain stores will take you.
My suggestion is to find a local mom and pop shop, where they hire you in as an apprentice. Stay there for a year, working full time, regardless of pay. As long as you're given the opportunity to touch EVERYTHING!
Focus on your diagnostic side, follow my premium channel, while you're working and paying your dues. And in a very short time, you'll double your pay. Maybe not at the small shop that hired you, but you'll be ready to enter the big chain stores and demand a higher pay.

Donnyten, I got your PM! I'm hitting you back tonight.

Thx

Tyler wrote: Donnyten, I got your PM! I'm hitting you back tonight.

ScannerDanner wrote: I've always told my students to expect 1 to 3 years of "paying your dues" before the money starts coming in.
The most important thing for you right now is to get into a shop where you are allowed to do ALL types of repairs, including diagnostic stuff.
It will do you no good to only be a tire and lube guy for a year, then year 2, you're finally doing brake jobs etc.
You'll end up getting trapped in the parts changer mentality and end up not liking your job. Not to mention getting stuck in a low pay bracket with tons of competition.
This is the path most big chain stores will take you.
My suggestion is to find a local mom and pop shop, where they hire you in as an apprentice. Stay there for a year, working full time, regardless of pay. As long as you're given the opportunity to touch EVERYTHING!
Focus on your diagnostic side, follow my premium channel, while you're working and paying your dues. And in a very short time, you'll double your pay. Maybe not at the small shop that hired you, but you'll be ready to enter the big chain stores and demand a higher pay.

I've been trying for a few months to get my foot in Mom and Pop Shop. I almost had the shot until they told me they needed someone with previous shop experience. A mom and pop shop would be my ideal starting scenario. I'll definitely keep trying.

I don't know about a lot of other folks but I've seen a LOT of technicians ( I use that term loosely in many cases) come and go over my 9 years in the industry. One thing they all had in common is they didn't want to do this stuff....you HAVE to love it. I LOVE diagnostics because its a puzzle and its fun figuring it out. It is also a lot of fun being "THE" guy in the shop when it comes to hard diagnostic stuff.

The downside to that is you make a lot more money slinging parts on a car than in diagnostic jobs. It always pays better to be hanging ball joints or something than doing a CEL light. On the flip side, I'm rarely without work to do. I work flat rate, FWIW.

Whatever you do, do NOT be a guy we have right now. 05 F150, no crank. He called it for a starter. Took him like 5+ hours to change the thing. That didn't even fix it. He then took another 2+ hours to actually find the issue. He found a blown fuse and the truck started. Now where would he be at if it was a bad ground or something? He doesn't want to do anything except easy stuff and does not care about customer issues at all. I've heard it right from his own mouth. Stay away from those people too, they are toxic.

Words of advice if your getting into this industry.
1. Leave your ego at home. If you think you know cars, you don't. I'm a ASE Master and L1 Tech and I learn stuff everyday. Never stop!!
2. Find the tech in the shop doing the hard jobs-befriend him and learn as much as you can.
3. You DO NOT need every "nice" to have tool on the Snap On truck. The tech makes the tool NOT the other way around. I've fixed A LOT of cars with $6 Harbor Freight meters. The "nice" tools come with time, invest in good basics and build on them. Put the money in the TOOLS NOT THE BOX. You don't make money with the box. One of my tools boxes is a Harbor Freight special I've had for 9 years and it has held up just fine. Drawers still slide in and out just as nice as a $$$$$$$ box.
4. Don't compromise your integrity. Do the job right and as best as you can. If you mess up, it happens, be honest about it. People respect that.
5. There is demand for GOOD technicians right now. People don't want to work. Make yourself marketable. Show up early, work late (if needed). Do the crap jobs. Be a team player,etc.....If you do this you'll make a name for yourself and get a good reputation. You can work ANYWHERE once you get experience. I don't make a ton but I do OK for the Rust Belt state of PA and given my backwoods area. I could go anywhere and work tomorrow. Get your ASE's as well. They are worth it. Shows you have half a clue at the very least.

Honestly, the injury with your hands might be an issue long term. LOTS of repetitive motion in this industry. Take care of your body. I see folks just punishing themselves by overworking, lifting things that are too heavy,etc.....be smart. Ex. I RARELY kneel on hard concrete, I use a pad. Wear good boots. Eat right, get a good nights sleep, don't be over weight. Protect your hearing!! Eyes!!! I have a co-worker who just turned 40 and he has been doing this for about 20 years and he is just fine, most of the time. He doesn't try to kill himself everyday.

Sagely advice right there, real life wisdom!
I like your work ethic!
(That "Ford Tech" sounds like a number of people I work with...)

My advice is general and I am not in the trade beyond it being a hobby I'm passionate about. But I am a business owner and I hire and fire. I hope you do not take this personal beyond just being constructive and I am not trying to be rude or a jerk. But if you were to interview with me and in the course of the conversation I learned this was your post I wouldn't offer you the job. You told me three things that check pretty much each block on who not to hire. 1. You have a physical limitation that is directly related to the job...your hands. You tell me turning wrenches doesn't bother you, but you can't really know until you're doing it day in and day out. Why would I want to take the chance hiring you over another applicant that doesn't have bad hands? I broke my back in 2005 and was offered a physical retirement. I turned it down and convinced myself I didn't have a broken back and outworked everybody else to the point I was head hunted with some big offers when I did retire past my normal scheduled retirement date. 2. There was some personal problems at the last job. I as the boss don't want to take a chance that you were the personal problem. Your story doesn't really matter to me. I might or might not listen politely, but I've already made my decision. Again, tell yourself there was no personal issues that made you leave your last job. 3. And this is a biggie...I have no desire to work full-time. Check block number 3 for me. I can't count on this guy to be there when I need him. Tell yourself you're way too young to already be thinking about retirement. So if you're going to get into any trade, I'd really recommend you mentally convince yourself the opposite of what you posted. Work hard to do that. Even though you have a couple offers right now, it won't take long before those three points start to surface. I've seen it too many times in the course of my life. You do it to yourself and even though you try to keep these things to yourself, a good manager will pick up on it. Again, just trying to help and give you the hard to hear advice. But it is with best wishes for your success.

Not really constructive criticism if you ask me. More like deconstructive criticism. None of what you said was taken as constructive to be quite honest. At least that's how I see it. But at any rate thanks for taking the time out to reply. I actually interviewed with an AAA
store manager who sounded a lot like you and during the interview the guy basically try to psychoanalyze and degrade me. Good thing I didn't accept the job offer.
It's real easy to make determinations based on Surface issues and assumptions without asking questions and giving a shit

I'm only interested in feedback from people who are either starting out or have been in the game for a while. Not ass hat managers who hire and Fire

To all the other people I greatly appreciate the feedback. Thanks.

Donnyten wrote: Not really constructive criticism if you ask me. More like deconstructive criticism. None of what you said was taken as constructive to be quite honest. At least that's how I see it. But at any rate thanks for taking the time out to reply. I actually interviewed with an AAA
store manager who sounded a lot like you and during the interview the guy basically try to psychoanalyze and degrade me. Good thing I didn't accept the job offer.
It's real easy to make determinations based on Surface issues and assumptions without asking questions and giving a shit

I'm only interested in feedback from people who are either starting out or have been in the game for a while. Not ass hat managers who hire and Fire

To all the other people I greatly appreciate the feedback. Thanks.

Woah! Seriously disappointed here. Unnecessary flamage...
As a manager of employees myself, I think he struck on some very crucial points. They must be based on some reality if you've seen similar reactions from at least one interviewer.
I seriously doubt anything he said was intended to be malicious, on the contrary, that's exactly the kind of criticism I would invite if I were starting a venture into new territory. Kind of like, "hey, that's the pointy end, don't hold it like that!"
This is a public forum and you asked the community at large for response, you can't get defensive if the feedback isn't what you wanted to hear.

I understand your point. But there are underlying reasons to the three points listed and their causes.

1.Never Had a hand issue until my most recent job- constant repetitive typing over and over and over and over and over again which led to my issue, not due to any manual labor where there's more expression of movement. Issue only arises when I'm at a computer not during range of motion

2. Desire to work full-time solely based on lifestyle and years of being a workaholic . I'm sure not all mechanics work full time. In fact I know a few who don't. They actually make a fair bit of good money. But if part-time isn't available? I have no problem busting my butt to get experience

3. Personal issues? Won't even get into that. This could be due to discriminatory or racial issues in the workplace. If one was being discriminated against and they left their job partly because of that and they told you if asked, you wouldn't hire someone based on that as well?


Whether or not a manager chooses to hear me out is another story. With this knowledge known, both managers still offered me a job and are willing to work with me. Not all managers are unwilling.

my apologies for the cussing. Though grounded in reality Just didn't find his advice particularly helpful in anyway

Donnyten wrote: Not really constructive criticism if you ask me. More like deconstructive criticism. None of what you said was taken as constructive to be quite honest. At least that's how I see it. But at any rate thanks for taking the time out to reply. I actually interviewed with an AAA
store manager who sounded a lot like you and during the interview the guy basically try to psychoanalyze and degrade me. Good thing I didn't accept the job offer.
It's real easy to make determinations based on Surface issues and assumptions without asking questions and giving a shit

I'm only interested in feedback from people who are either starting out or have been in the game for a while. Not ass hat managers who hire and Fire

To all the other people I greatly appreciate the feedback. Thanks.

Donnyten, due to the fact that over a computer screen you can't hear my tone of voice or see my facial expressions I tried starting and ending my reply with a tone that I don't think you picked up on. If I was intending to be de-constructive, I wouldn't have even put forth that effort. But I will try to clear it up. First, if you noticed at the end of each point I tried to give you a line of advice. What I was trying to explain to you is what good managers are looking for. Some places can't keep enough reliable people so they will basically hire anyone that appears intelligent and they think has a good chance of showing up for work on time. Half the time, those managers are wrong, but they cross their fingers. They just keep playing the numbers and usually get one good worker for every 4 or 5 they hire. The good managers, and the ones that will help you grow are looking for people that have a solid foundation for them to work with. You need to see it from their shoes so you know if you need to adjust your attitude. If you want a specific job, know that going in and then get "what do I want" out of your head and focus on "what do they want".

We all have had to adjust are attitude at some point in our lives. Some just a little bit, some a lot. As an example, picture yourself as a shop manager that's been in the trade 30 years and has had hundreds of nights going home bone weary from the intense labor of working in a shop. Then he interviews someone that left their last job in IT because their hands hurt. Not trying to belittle your issues, but just trying to explain how he might look at that. That is why I say push past the pain and keep it to yourself. Half the pain is in your body, half is in your head. I speak from experience. The more you expose to people and yourself that you have a disability, the more it will be a hindrance and a crutch to you. If you refuse to acknowledge the pain to yourself, then it won't show to others. I had troops come back from Afghanistan missing limbs, and you would never know it. If you said to them, "But what about your missing leg?" They would look shocked, look down and state "I'm missing my leg?" Those are the type of folks I hire.

You mistook my meaning in "hire and fire". That is just a phrase meaning I'm one of the people that has that responsibility. Not that is how we employ people. I'd bet a dollar that guy at AAA doesn't do a lot of firing. The only guy I have had to fire was because he was unintentionally stealing (long story). I don't fire people because I do my homework during the interview and hire the people that are going to make my business successful. That's what I pay them to do. The crap they are teaching nowadays that the interview is just as much of an interview of the employer is a bunch of snowflake BS. If you don't know already that you want to work for me at interview time, it will be a very short interview. I'm not running a Fortune 500 company.

If you're not interested, that OK. Take it or leave it. I'll sleep fine tonight knowing I attempted to give someone the straight up no BS advice.

Donnyten wrote: I understand your point. But there are underlying reasons to the three points listed and their causes.

1.Never Had a hand issue until my most recent job- constant repetitive typing over and over and over and over and over again which led to my issue, not due to any manual labor where there's more expression of movement. Issue only arises when I'm at a computer not during range of motion

2. Desire to work full-time solely based on lifestyle and years of being a workaholic . I'm sure not all mechanics work full time. In fact I know a few who don't. They actually make a fair bit of good money. But if part-time isn't available? I have no problem busting my butt to get experience

3. Personal issues? Won't even get into that. This could be due to discriminatory or racial issues in the workplace. If one was being discriminated against and they left their job partly because of that and they told you if asked, you wouldn't hire someone based on that as well?


Whether or not a manager chooses to hear me out is another story. With this knowledge known, both managers still offered me a job and are willing to work with me. Not all managers are unwilling.

my apologies for the cussing. Though grounded in reality Just didn't find his advice particularly helpful in anyway

Didn't see this post before I sent my last one. And again, not trying to be controversial. Just trying to explain how the other side looks at things to help you out. Regarding the personal issues, what I'm trying to say is employers really don't care what the personal issues were. Racial or whatever. Discrimination? That term gets thrown around like candy nowadays so it doesn't mean anything to a lot of people anymore. Which is actually a shame. But it's like the boy who cried wolf. If you tell a potential employer that you left your last job partly due to personal issues, there's a good chance you've already lost them. The story is minutia. Now there is the question in their mind of whether or not you were the personal issue. Not saying in your case you were. But now you've planted the seed in the employers head. What if? So, again, advice...keep it to yourself.