Just some random musings I've been thinking about lately and I wanted to see what you all think about them as well. I'll start with a bit of background info on myself so you have some context and then make statements/questions with a response. Maybe we can keep the format I lay out?
ASE Master Tech for 10+ years
Almost a Nissan Master Tech-I need 3 classes.
A.S. in Automotive Technology
B.S. in Teaching and Training Technical Professionals.
I've worked in independent garages for a short time under a year combined.
2 years at a Ford Dealer
5+ years at a Nissan Dealer
2 school years at a Vocational High school teaching Automotive Technology---that was NOT for me. The politics and the BS....oh my.....
Where you see independent automotive repair shops in 10 to 20 years?
I see many closing up shop. The newest technology coming off the line is VERY advanced, you WILL need a GOOD scan tool to do even basic repairs such as brake pad replacement. Many indpendants cannot keep up with what is on the roads now in western PA. I see their handiwork everyday it seems. I had to fix some spread pins today because some booble head front probed the connector and spread ALL of them. I have seen MANY Nissan CVT's with ATF in them or other NON-Nissan fluid. Its DEATH to a CVT. How stupid are "mech nics" to put the WRONG fluid in a transmission. They cannot even set the fluid level correctly....then the unit goes into fail safe. Customer wanted a new transmission for this just last week. I set the level properly and it will be fine. Not rocket science. Granted they are making it MUCH harder to set levels properly it can be done if you give a crap. I have very little faith in many of the local garages. I hear bad info and advice from them which suggests to me they are stuck in the past. That is a problem, big time. The GOOD independents will survive but many will have to close up.
Will the technician shortage continue?
YES, for a LONG time. Why? The stigma of grease monkey. The modern automobile is THE MOST complex device EVER issued to NON-EXPERT users. PERIOD. People don't know, what they don't know about cars. Many hang on to realities that no longer exist or never existed. With so much information (most of it bad) on the internet, people still have NO clue about how stuff actually works.
Its really bad in education. The "system" seems to think you can give students with no aptitude for MODERN automobiles to program and they will succeed and meet requirements. You need MUCH more than just mechanical aptitude to fix modern cars you need diagnostic and electrical aptitude to even just service them. Yet we are stuck thinking of yesteryear......that will not get fixed till Career Technical Education gets fixed. Lots of folks will come from automotive programs, few will stay in the industry, and even fewer will be what I would call proficient.
I wanted to pre-screen students to give them a chance at being successful in the industry before they entered my program....I was told by the fellow teachers A: This won't happen. B: If you did, you would not have any students or maybe a couple. Programs don't stay around with that few students. Why was I teaching again......if the students in my program don't have what it takes?
What are your thoughts on ASE certification and will more or less people be certified?
I just took the newest batch of re certification tests recently on a few of my areas. I found that they have changed a lot since I took them last.
They actually reflect modern (post 2000) cars for the most part. Brakes and Steering and Suspension had questions that incorporated electrical and electronic theory. Makes sense. Less crap about proportioning valves and duo servo drum brakes. More stuff about ABS, Steering angle sensors, electric power steering,etc....you know stuff relevant in the last 20 years.
I see less people having ASE certifications simply because they will NOT be able to pass the tests. Not because they cannot learn how to take a test or just plain take an ASE test but because they don't know jack crap. I've been around technicians ( i use that term loosely) that say they can do the tasks but not take a test. From observation I also find they don't know crap either. They tend to fumble their way thru things hap haphazardly.
I think the tests should be hard. It should be a mark of a technician that treats this a profession to be certified. I'm not saying you know everything about cars but you've proven you have half a clue anyhow.
So what do you all think about these three questions/statements.
P.S. OBDII has been around 20+ years how many people have a good understanding of it? My experience, not many.
The shortage of qualified technicians will get much worse as the skill set needed to repair automobiles is increasing almost daily. Just check out Keith Decazio's newest video. Ford Fusion IMRC code. All it was, was a bad solenoid. So a repair shop couldn't figure out a simple system like that? They are in big trouble along with a lot of other shops/technicians out there.
With all the ADAS systems out and even more advanced systems on the way, certifications are going to end up a requirement mandated and controlled by the government. As far as ASE testing goes, it can't get any harder than it already is because it is not a requirement to be certified. Only about 60% of the people that take the brakes test pass. The other A series tests are closer to 50% and the L series test only about 1/3 pass those tests. So if the tests were harder then much fewer people would pass which would cause fewer people to take them.
As far as shops closing, that is a possibility. But I see the mobile programming and diag businesses getting bigger and moving into mobile calibrations for ADAS systems. Everyone said fuel injection would close shops but it didn't. I guess time will tell
Some people like me are horrible test takers. I can have all the knowledge in the world but I figure stuff out with scenarios. The tests don't give you a scenario for the question so I usually over think the question and get it wrong. I have never been a good test person. Some are awesome at it. That's the main reason why I don't have mine, I could have got them years ago but I know even though I have the knowledge, I'll need to retake them to pass.
Confirm what it's not, and fix what it is!
The following user(s) said Thank You: BroncoMcbane
I can tell you blantantly. I dont have any ASEs anymore. They expired and I said "Hooey to you!". There is no actual Society with a concrete street address that you can visit to get a sense of validation for your efforts and I cant be swayed with patches. As long as the books are info are online I can read them. The issue is recently the Makers are saying the info is proprietary and wont share it without paying a 5 digit licensing fee.
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Another thing to mention in your tirade against small independent mechanics is that the cars of today will lose value faster than an anvil falling in a cartoon. Why? Who cares how sophisticated it is if no one can fix it? It is going to the junkyard. Proof? The Cadillac Northstar. It was so technically advanced that you needed special tools for it. At the end.of the day it ruined Cadillacs resale value. Junkyards are full of them from 1995-2005, worthless. Also, the BMW 745. Too technical for a used car to be. Any Maserati of late.
The fact of the matter is that we are in the age of specialiZation. Guys like you will be Nissan/Infiniti guys ONLY. Other guys like my buddy Jules will be Toyota/Lexus guys ONLY. Other guys like Rick from Classic Truck Rescue will be pre-1979. There will be a guy who only knows old Citroen or Renault. And a guy who will know only new(2012 & up) Citroen or Renault. And a guy who will know only Kia and Hyundai. There will be shops that only do MoPar and ones that only do GM ACDelco.
I dont see that much of a problem, especially when Chinese cars are being sold in North America and the pie gets cut up even smaller.
bruce.oliver wrote: The shortage of qualified technicians will get much worse as the skill set needed to repair automobiles is increasing almost daily. Just check out Keith Decazio's newest video. Ford Fusion IMRC code. All it was, was a bad solenoid. So a repair shop couldn't figure out a simple system like that? They are in big trouble along with a lot of other shops/technicians out there.
With all the ADAS systems out and even more advanced systems on the way, certifications are going to end up a requirement mandated and controlled by the government. As far as ASE testing goes, it can't get any harder than it already is because it is not a requirement to be certified. Only about 60% of the people that take the brakes test pass. The other A series tests are closer to 50% and the L series test only about 1/3 pass those tests. So if the tests were harder then much fewer people would pass which would cause fewer people to take them.
As far as shops closing, that is a possibility. But I see the mobile programming and diag businesses getting bigger and moving into mobile calibrations for ADAS systems. Everyone said fuel injection would close shops but it didn't. I guess time will tell
Bruce the problem isnt solely the shop who cant diagnose a solenoid. It is the manufacturer also. Seriously...6 years from now, do you think the owner of that Fusion is going to pay your shop diag. fee of $120/hour to even find out the problem. It is a rhetorical question. The answer is right now on the Craigslist car ads in your metro area. Whatever subsystem that housed that fault will remain undiagnosed probably til the end of the cars life. Who is gonna make an appointment to service TPMS systems in a 2005 Toyota 4Runner?
The future is specialization, there will be New Ford guys and Old Ford guys.
You can make the test as hard as you want. But unfortunately money has tl match your efforts. My buddy tried to get his oldest son into being an auto tech, starting as a lube tech. It didnt work. At $10/hr with a wife anf baby on the way there was no room for growth in comparison to working 3rd shift at the Costco warehouse. If you want auto techs to be as trained and as knowledgeable as engineers then flat rate goes right out the window.
