Trying to sell my dealer on a Pico

Hello!

I was hoping i could get som help/input from the experts here.

My dealer doesnt have a scope.
I have been here less than a year, and 2 of my coworkers who see the importance of diagnostics have atleast purchased a uscope each after they have seen me use mine.
Wich is awesome!

Now i want the dealer to buy a pico, and maybe a WPS kit. So i wanted to put together a little presentation of why they should buy a scope for us to use.

This all comes down to money in the end, so i figured my best bet would be to do some tests with the pico and compare them to conventional tests.
Here you guys come in, i have some ideas, but I would really appreciate some input.

My plan so far is cam/crank correlation to verify timing.
Relative compression and relative compression with pressure transducer. (I have a DIY one)
O2 sensor waveforms maybe?


I don't have a COP probe sadly, and no attenuator yet so no secondary ignition.

what other tests would be time saving or involve the need for a scope?

Do YOU have a pico actually? That probably would be the best demonstration possible.

Otherwise go to the play store and download the PicoScope automotive and show this to your employer. There is a wealth of information in it as well as examples of ten easy and popular tests

Yes, I have a 2204a.

I have the app downloaded, I was just curious what would be the best examples.
I was planning on doing both tests and timing myself, at least where it's reasonable.

To get a secondary capture without a specific probe/wand on most cops a regular test lead will show a signal good enough for showing burntime characteristics and allow for coil to coil comparison. Just put the test lead on top/side of the coil wherever you get the clearest signal. A coin or aluminium foil on top of the coil often time enhances the signal.

Other easy to capture signal of great diagnostic value are injector wave forms showing pintle hump, cmp and ckp signals for timing issues, primary ignition (including trigger signals) etc. You would need an attenuator on your 2204 for some of these tests, be aware!

An amp clamp is an essential piece of equipment to extend the scope of any scope (pun intended?)....You should get one as soon as possible imo.

juergen.scholl wrote:

To get a secondary capture without a specific probe/wand on most cops a regular test lead will show a signal good enough for showing burntime characteristics and allow for coil to coil comparison. Just put the test lead on top/side of the coil wherever you get the clearest signal. A coin or aluminium foil on top of the coil often time enhances the signal.

Wouldn't I need an attenuator for that?

I have Fluke i30s that im trying to get to work on my pico.
It's a Fluke amp clamp with 30A and 300A setting with a BNC connector.

No, you do not need an attenuator for this test.

Though you should make sure there is no secondary leakage out of the coil that might might jump to the test lead. An easy way to test for secondary leakage is to connect a test light to ground and pass the tip of the test light around the coil watching out for spark/rpm drop.

Worth looking at the Pico guided teston the Pico Automotive site.

bjørn.ali.stokman wrote:

and no attenuator yet so no secondary ignition.

Wouldn't I need an attenuator for that?

A Primary Ignition Voltage waveform is where you would want to use an attenuator. This can only be done on 2-wire ignition coils. Primary Ignition Voltage will spike to around 400 volts, on the coil control wire. Many scopes are not capable to withstand this kind of voltage. An attenuator is used to drop this voltage, before it enters your scope.

Secondary Ignition Voltage is about 100 times HIGHER than Primary Voltage. That's 40,000 volts! This is the voltage that jumps the spark plug gap. You should NEVER allow Secondary Voltage to enter your scope. An attenuator will not protect your scope from Secondary Voltage. Secondary Voltage is not, directly, measured.

Chad wrote:

bjørn.ali.stokman wrote:

and no attenuator yet so no secondary ignition.

Wouldn't I need an attenuator for that?

A Primary Ignition Voltage waveform is where you would want to use an attenuator. This can only be done on 2-wire ignition coils. Primary Ignition Voltage will spike to around 400 volts, on the coil control wire. Many scopes are not capable to withstand this kind of voltage. An attenuator is used to drop this voltage, before it enters your scope.

Secondary Ignition Voltage is about 100 times HIGHER than Primary Voltage. That's 40,000 volts! This is the voltage that jumps the spark plug gap. You should NEVER allow Secondary Voltage to enter your scope. An attenuator will not protect your scope from Secondary Voltage. Secondary Voltage is not, directly, measured.

You know, i have been scratching my brain about this for so long.
Because yes, i thought the same, that you dont really let 40kv in to your scope.
As you said, it is indirectly meassured, but I was so afriad of my new and only scope and i couldnt seem to find a definitive answer.

So thank you for clearing that up for me!

Although I completely do understand your enthusiasm about the power of scope diagnostics you may want to consider to gain some practice and more experience on this subject before trying to convince your boss with a presentation.

I don't mean to be rude or belittle your abilities, just food for thoughts....

Because of your questions to me it looks like there is still a lot of ground for you to cover before you are in conditions to educate someone on the matter. A failed intent to do so due to deficiency in your presentation and/or lack of being able to answer related questions may turn off your employer ...... forever.

I wish you luck in your pitch to dealership management. Sometimes they'll see the light? Sometimes it's an uphill battle.

For whatever it's worth, the Pico Automotive software suite is the real selling point. Not only do your A techs get to do relative compression/cam crank/ignition stuff, but they also automate other tests so that B and C techs can get in on the fun.

www.picoauto.com/library/videos-picodiagnostics

The software will hold your hand through battery/starter/alternator and relative compression testing, then generate a report you can show off/print out/whatever. The power balance test is kinda hit or miss, IMO. :silly: But the rest is good stuff. The electrical system test makes a nice compliment to the capacitance/conductance testers that are very common today, but sometimes miss/misdiagnose marginal issues.

Can bus testing. Honestly dealerships are cheap. They don’t diag