Why not use standard lab scopes?

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4 years 4 months ago - 4 years 4 months ago #34706 by RimmersTechSWE
Is there a reason why we dont use standard labs scopes in auto repair? I mean scopes like Rigoll, UNI-T Keysight etc some of them seem to be half the price of a similar picoscope while being much higher speced and without the concern for USB connectivity problems. Very interested to get some input on this before I go out and buy a scope.
Last edit: 4 years 4 months ago by Andy.MacFadyen.

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4 years 4 months ago #34708 by Andy.MacFadyen
Bench scopes with the main exception of some of the Owon models are hampered by the need for mains power supply. Even on the Owon SDS with the optional battery pack especially the faster models the length of time working on battery power is limited --- considerably shorter than the manufacturers claims.

" We're trying to plug a hole in the universe, what are you doing ?. "
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4 years 4 months ago #34710 by Andy.MacFadyen
Take a look at the Ditex range of automotive scopes they do PC connected scopes and pad style scopes at a price much lower than Pico's automotive scopes the software has automotive pre-sets and connection guides and example wave forms. They also have very good on Knowledge Base Library on the website.
They have agents in most countries and also sell via eBay shop (search eBay on carscope_ditex)

Auto Ditex Website link

On the otherhand if you want a simple starter level PC USB general purpose scope at a bargain price checkout the Owon 11022i --- it is a lot better than the Hantek 1008 but will need input attenuators for checking coils and injectors

" We're trying to plug a hole in the universe, what are you doing ?. "
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4 years 4 months ago #34717 by RimmersTechSWE
Thank you for your reply. I have seen Diagnose Dan use the ditex pad scope and it seems pretty appealing but still if it's just the power cable that ias the obstacle to using a bench scope that's not more of an obstacle than the italian restaurant of usb wires that comes with a USB scope. Considering that the bench scope has better specs for other things that I might use it for. I thought it might be a ruggedity problem that might be the reason.

Thank you again for your time. :)

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4 years 4 months ago #34729 by RimmersTechSWE
What about this one. seems to have roughlythe same input specs as the 42/4425.

www.conrad.com/p/voltcraft-dso-3104-usb-...rum-analyzer-1490960

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4 years 4 months ago #34731 by Andy.MacFadyen
That is just a re-branded Hantek :-(

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4 years 4 months ago #34733 by RimmersTechSWE
Ok so that means it will work then? Even thought it might not have automotive presets. What makes it not as good as the other one tohugh? The software?

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4 years 4 months ago - 4 years 4 months ago #34734 by Andy.MacFadyen
To be exact that scope is a Hantek 6104PC which generally sells for about £170 or 200 Euro The software it is packaged with is the older style of software withe onscreen knobs

You will find very many comments accross the internet and in this forum on Hantek scopes, the serious experts reviwing them say the sampling rates they quote are way over claimed, the software is horrible to use and build quality generally inconsistant and poor.

" We're trying to plug a hole in the universe, what are you doing ?. "
(Walter Bishop Fringe TV show)



Last edit: 4 years 4 months ago by Andy.MacFadyen.

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4 years 4 months ago - 4 years 4 months ago #34735 by Andy.MacFadyen
Probably the cheapest useful scope Owon VDS1002i (note the i suffix) --- PC software is really nice to use, surprisingly performance at 25mhz per channel isn't over claimed by the manufacturer. A lot of Chinese scope manufacturers might claim say 100mhz but in reality that is closer to say 50mhz and the processing hardware is shared between channels so the more channels you run the slower the performance of the scope.

www.owon.co.uk/product-page/vds1022i-25m...uEDySoFHrRKUtSWMHBeQ

" We're trying to plug a hole in the universe, what are you doing ?. "
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Last edit: 4 years 4 months ago by Andy.MacFadyen.

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4 years 4 months ago #34740 by FrugalPrepper
I agree Hantek is Junk. Hantek.com has been down for a week now. The support is horrid. The software is insane. The amount of storage they can do is insufficient for many things. I have been stuck with one for a while. I need a Pico like a Hobo needs a blanket. You can get a 2 channel non auto pico and do many of the same tests if you get it setup right, which is something I am considering, but I think I would be better to just save up and get a 4 channel pico. The other thing is the amount of Known goods there are in Pico format these days.

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4 years 4 months ago #34744 by RimmersTechSWE
Thanks. I will probably buy a pico or ditex when I have an income from it. Right now I have no real income at all and am just looking to practise using the scope for different things. (I repair hifi equipment aswell). That's the reason I thought I might get a bench scope.

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4 years 2 days ago - 4 years 2 days ago #38634 by Dtech494
Hi Andy,
I love the Owon as well and will keep backing you up on that.
The settings kind of reminds me of the Sun LS 2000 that I had but died.
Last edit: 4 years 2 days ago by Dtech494.

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3 years 11 months ago #38751 by rome83
If you're looking for a cheap and relatively good quality scope(way better than hantek) check out the Loto OSC482. It comes with software for a pc or laptop or you can plug it into your android phone or android tablet using the HScope app. I added it to my Launch X431 which is just a Lenovo 8 inch tablet at heart. Absolutely awesome and I made a YouTube video on it
The following user(s) said Thank You: Noah, chisel, ken1

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3 years 9 months ago #40669 by chisel
Clearly most commenters post about their personal experience with the various scope options (and other tools) but hasn't the OP been diverted from his initial question?
No disrespect, because your reports on USB scopes and other variants are priceless for those of us to whom these tools aren't readily available.
For this very reason the question remains 'Why not a low cost bench scope (like the Rigol ds1054z)?'
Surely being tied to AC mains cannot be the only deterrent since that wouldn't matter if working in a garage or back yard.
Is it the lack of automotive specific programmes/configuration?
Incompatible probes, adapters, connectors?
Remember many of your followers (you'd probably be surprised) can only look at videos and read here and at other useful forums. We cannot experiment with the tools and return them. Nor even see them function live. Re-shipping gear if we make a bad choice is out of the question.

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3 years 4 months ago #44667 by Robbocop33
The ditex carscope 'should' have been a fantastic little tool,great for starters,'full' of great setup information,'but',spoiled by terrible battery life,only two channels and if the screen had only been a couple of inches larger!
Some seem to think it's too expensive for what it is,i bought mine for £700,when i sold it it was 'as new' and it took me months to get £300 for it!!

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3 years 4 months ago #44706 by Andy.MacFadyen
First of all the safety message using a 220-230v scope outside is really not a great idea as not by any stretch of the imagination safe, because the generate a lot of heat they are fan cooled and the backs have a lot of ventillation slots. I do in fact use a bench labscope in fact it is my favourite scope but it is an Owon SDS7102v which has the optional battery pack, nice scope decent screen size good easy to use controls saves to USB and has an ethernet connection and I can connectect to a computer monitor or TV equiped with a VGA socket. The downside are the battery life isn't great, it is really quite awkard to under the hood/bonnet, if working via a PC the software interface is unbelievable ancient. Most of the Chinese desktop labscopes were designed 10 or 15 years back so the software tends to be very old fashioned.
All mainstream losciloscope have a standardised 1 meg ohm so using automotive accessories isn't a problem. As I have posted many times lack of automotive presets on any scope isn't a major issue, neither is the lack of setting for a 20:1 attenuator -- simples - just use a 100:1 attenuator instead Rigol scopes keep geeting mentioned I know they are pushed hard by a certain party on the internet but the screens are smaller and the price.




" We're trying to plug a hole in the universe, what are you doing ?. "
(Walter Bishop Fringe TV show)



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2 years 2 months ago - 2 years 2 months ago #53540 by ksat22
I realize this is an old post, but I wanted to help answer the O.P.'s original question regarding the use of bench-top oscilloscopes in an automotive application,

Aside from portability reasons, bench-top scopes are not ideal to use because they are mains earth grounded/referenced (that is, the BNC ground is directly connected to earth ground) via the scopes power plug plugged into a wall outlet. This presents problems when trying to measure non-earth grounded floating voltages typically found on vehicles.

There are ways around this limitation of the scope (one is by adding a differenital probe) but just realize using one without taking extra steps might give inaccurate measurements.

It's worth noting that even portable oscilloscopes that run off of battery power can potentially be subject to mains grounding and throw readings off if the device is plugged into a wall outlet/charging at the time of use and its charger is not isolated. The same goes for charging via USB. .
Last edit: 2 years 2 months ago by ksat22.
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2 years 2 months ago #53558 by chisel
Ksat22 posted "They are earth grounded....the BNC ground is directly connected to earth ground. This presents problems when trying to measure non-earth grounded floating voltages typically found on vehicles".

Aha! Priceless.

One sincerely appreciates this information.

Blessings.

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2 years 2 months ago - 2 years 2 months ago #53582 by ken1
rome83! X431ultra!
Last edit: 2 years 2 months ago by ken1.

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2 years 2 months ago #53817 by IRISH ISLANDER 4X4 DIAGNOSTICS
Hey everybody,,,would first like to thank everyone on here for all the info that is posted , as well as scanner danner.

I have been working on 4x4's and Jeeps all my life, and now I am just getting into scopes, realizing with todays technology a graphing multimeter is not cutting it anymore.Not a professional by any means , but do consider my self a full throttle DIY Guy...lol

With out hi-jacking this thread,, I do have a scope ground question, which may be different from the ground question on this thread. As a new member here, was not sure if this was worth posting a new thread..

I am between the Autel 4 channel automotive Maxiscope MP408 vs the 2 channel PICO automotive scope with the new bnc plus upgrade that recently came out.

I am trying to understand the terms of floating grounds vs common grounds on the scopes themselves ,,, where all the channels are all grounded together or like the pico where each channel requires a separate ground on the different sensors that are being tested

I believe the Auto Maxi Scope is under the common ground rule " not sure, appreciate any input on that",,,?

How does that change the way I would safely use the scope? IE The AUTEL STAND ALONE 408",,,,,,,Just use the one negative ground on the battery of the vehicle no matter what sensor and how many channels I am testing on since the scope has a common shared ground? or is it more complicated than that?

If anyone is wondering how I got between thinking of buying a 4 channel Autel or a 2 channel Pico, is due to my limited budget,,, I am heavily relying on the new Pico 7 automotive software to help aid in making that 2 channel scope more of a 4 channel scope with extra work with the waveform overlay option on the their software, as well has the online waveform library.

I Know the Pico is the cadillac of scopes, but the Autel has 4 channels and I can afford it. Any tips? Looked at the Mic Sig portable automotive scopes,,, seems tempting,,, any inputs?

Thanks
Don

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