EXPERIMENT - Will PicoScope Software work with other Oscilloscopes

Hi guys, My name Is Martin

I'm conducting an Experiment... FEEL FREE TO JOIN IN

I spoke to Paul Recently and he advised me that the PicoScope 4425 was the absolute Bees Knees / Ducks Guts / basically it was "The Shit" of Automotive Scopes. ok

i looked at the Specs and then compared them to my Rigol DS2072A which i bought for $1,100
and in consideration that any other person can currently in sydney buy a Rigol DS1054Z for $400 hehe
here is a spec comparison

FEATURE Pico Scope 4225 Rigol DS2072A (Mine) Rigol DS1054Z

price $2,500 $1,100 $400 APPROX.

CHANNELS 4 2 4
BANDWIDTH 20MHz 300MHz 70 MHz - 100MHz
SAMPLING RATE 400MSa/s 1 GSa/s 2 GSa/a
Memory Depth Not Sure 56 Mpts 14 Mpts

now.. let's leave higher functions out of it, like Masking and Math and so on.

Just by these facts alone, it is clear that the Rigol Scopes would suit anyone who wanted to use this for Automotice and it would
save you a lot of money

SO THERE IN LIES MY CURIOSITY

I'M GOING TO SEE IF THE PICOSCOPE SOFTWARE CAN BE INSTALLED TO WORK WITH RIGOL HARDWARE hehe


let's see what happens
Because if this works, it meerely means that i would have to buy the licence key and the input probes that are required for Automotive
and i would have a far far superior scope

Hell, i many not even need the software (god knows if anything it hinders response time.
but, i do understand that it does come pre packed with useful waveforms and information specifically designed for Automotive troubleshooting

so.. let the fun begin

I'll post my updates as they happen
....... Step 1. Installing PicoScope 6 Software

i'll keep you guys updated

I just found this on this site

www.picoauto.com/downloads

PicoScope 6 Automotive is the latest version of our oscilloscope software.
This release is compatible with all automotive PicoScopes. (PicoScope 6 is available for users of non-automotive oscilloscopes.)
how cool is that,
they actually state that they support other scopes

so.. all i have to worry about now is the driver

i do have the Drivers for my Rigol, but it may be the case that they are written specificlly for Rigol Software
or
my other option is to install
Rigol Ultra Sigma which contains the driver and have Pico Scope 6 installed as well

thus far i have installed Pico Scope 6 but the device is not connected, i can only use the Sample device (which isn't helping)

oh well. i'll keep at it

hi guys
so this is where i am now

thus far, PicoScope 6 didn't recognize my scope
- i've sent a message to Pico Tech Support to see if they have a solution (Given the message they put on their site)
it'll be interesting to see what they have to say

Further to this, i stopped to think for a second "Does it really need to be PicoScope" Software ?
ANSWER : No, i don't think so.
i mean the point is.. My Scope is better and More capable (From a Spec point of view) and more accurate than the Pico 4225.
However, i don't have the leads (for Automotive) but, that can be ordered easily
because both my scope and the Pico have BNC compatible connectors and USB A Connections to the computer (mine can also connect via LXI Bridge (Ethernet)

the only thing that remains is the software and the diagnostic utilities (which appear to be useful)

NOW, THIS WAS WEIRD
Please understand
i thought that
ERIC THE CAR GUY was a separate channel, but really was Paul Danner
so can you imagine my WTF moment when i saw this video HEHE



i mean, the hat
the jumper
the beard
basically they are the same guy

the only difference is one says ... STAY DIRTY and the other doesn't LOL

anyway. on a serious note though
Paul and Eric came up with a really really good point

IT COMES DOWN TO WHAT I WANT TO DO

and the answer to that is....

1. I've got a young guy i'm teaching Electrical and Electronics to
2. he's into engines and i'm not a mechanic , so i figured i'll teach him electrical correctly and he can get an apprenticeship with a mechanic
and at the same time i can educate myself on my own car

3. I'm not looking to replace my mechanic for my car, but i am looking to stop wasting time with idiots who waste my time and spin
me bullshit when they don't know what they are doing.

4. lastly i would like to think i can help others on this site with my digging around

so i suppose my first step is this
i would like to make additional use of my scope on my car.
if i need to buy an Automotive scope..i will, it's not a biggie
but, i don't see the need

and in a way, IT'S FUN TO FIGURE THIS SHIT OUT
because if i work out a relatively simple way for you guys to use a Rigol Scope with OBD Software
the Scope would only cost you $400 hehe

so, i'll follow this method for now...

my first port of call is to learn to diagnose my car with my scope directly via the car,
i'm pretty sure there should be a legacy SCART port of something that interacts with the car directly and it's computers
Now, all i'm looking for at this stage is waveforms NOT CODES just yet
that should be pretty simple

and that being the case (i could be mistaken) but i don't think the OBD software is relevant (feel free to disagree with me and tell me otherwise)

Further to this

I have tried the following ODB software

PicoScope 6 - can't connect as yet, i have created a car profile, but it keeps saying, can't connect, i think it's probably a BAUD Rate issue
or i need to create a new port so it recognizes the USB Port of Ethernet Port (i'll pick this up tomorrow)
it could also be a driver issue, and i'm waiting for a response from PICO

Scan XL - Same Issue, i think this is open source software though, so either BAUD RATE or Port Assignment or Driver issue

perhaps i may hire a programmer to work out the driver side of it for me

Auto Diagnose Soft ODB - Need a serial code for it,.... Looking for a trial version

R270 - same as above either Baud issue or Port issue or Driver issue

beyond this, i have around 6 More OBD software to try out and see what's what

BUT, THE BIGGIE FOR ME WAS THIS....

Paul and Eric said
the best software is always going to be the manufacturer's
THAT BEING THE CASE

i guess i can first start and see what works with my scope and then how functional and practical it is from there

oh.. if you are wondering, why have i not used the RIGOL ULTRASCOPE SOFTWARE
well.. I have... IT'S SHIT hehe
the scope is awesome, the software refresh rate is absolute bullshit, i wouldn't piss on it
and even if it was good

it doesn't have automotive codes
Maybe i can also talk to Rigol to see if they do have an alternative Automotive program..

oh well, that's it for now
it's 2am
i'm off to bed

Hope this helps someone

By quoting the Pico website out of context you are getting hold of the wrong end of the stick about the licensing of PIco software.

"PicoScope 6 Automotive is the latest version of our oscilloscope software.
"This release is compatible with all automotive PicoScopes. (PicoScope 6 is available for users of non-automotive oscilloscopes.)"

In context is actually intended to be taken as: :
"PicoScope 6 Automotive is the latest version of our oscilloscope software.
This release is compatible with all automotive PicoScopes. (PicoScope 6 is available for users of non-automotive Picotech oscilloscopes.)

In other words Picoautomotive software is intended for only for use with Pico Automotive scopes it is not built to run on other non-automotive including PicoTech oscilloscopes BUT the normal non-automotive Picoscope legacy software will on PicoAutomptive scopes.
This site cannnot and will not condone the hacking of propriety software, Pico invested a great deal of money into developing their automotive software which is used and paid for by many of our members and their employers we should respect their investment.

There is a lot that goes into determining the value of a tool other than its purchase price. For example a piece of test equipment made for a specific purpose/application is almost always more expensive (perhaps even less in features and specs) than a general purpose piece of kit. The value comes from what it excels at, and how easy/fast it is to use.

As a simple example I have a tool that tests Ethernet cables. It is really just a couple of boxes with batteries, connectors, LEDs. It has far fewer features than a multimeter of the same price and I could use a multimeter, connectors, etc. to do the same job but it would take longer and be more cumbersome. This simple purpose built tool excels at one job and because of how quickly/easily it does that job it has a value that its specs alone would not suggest.

An automotive scope has a lot of things built into it that a typical electronics scope does not (attenuators and filters to compensate for ignition noise, etc.). They are also built to be very rugged because they are used in an environment where grease, oil and being dropped are going to be daily issues. They are also battery powered where the average oscope is not (though I do have a battery powered one). They also have software that is specifically tailored to the task and to work with the hardware.

All of these things, not jus the raw specs, create value in the test gear.

Yes very much so automotive scopes have to be tough and don't really require a fast sample rate, the Snap-on Vantage Pro has a sample rate of 8 megasamples/s shared bwteen the channels and a bandwidth of 3 MHz but it is nice useful bit of kit for automotive work. The original Vantage was much slower really more of a a graphing voltmeter.
The bargain basement Hantek 1008 has a sample rate of only 2.4 mega/samples/s but it works well enough for most auto diagnostics -- the software is however a pain to use.

Memory depth is however very useful, you can see this if you watch Paul or any of the other Pico users doing a long capture when looking for glitch in say cam and crank sensor wave forms. With the higer end Picoscopes you can do a caputure over several seconds a second of which can be selected and zoomed into and still retain all the useful detail.

Bench DSO and general purpose USB DSO also tend to lack enough inbuilt input voltage protect against ignition and fuel injector waveform splikes. Snap-on and Pico Automotive and even the Hantek 1008 scope can handle 400v without using an external attenuator.

ATTENTION jeff Birt

hi mate
yeah sure, i can understand that, i also have a network tester, a little cheap shit that i bought for $20
and yes, there is a big difference between that an a Qualification tester

and i get all that

but i disagree with a few things

you can't do the same thing on the network tester that you can with a Multimeter.
in saying that

it is true that the little humble network tester has a time and a place where it makes things easier, but IT NEEDS TO BE UNDERSTAND THAT IT IS NOT HIGHLY ACCURATE

it boils down to ... THE RIGHT TOOL FOR THE JOB
so if you are just concerned about continuity , then yeah.. Network tester is the go
if you are actually concerned about resistance on each wire on an ethernet cable then you need to the multimeter Not the network tester

as for what you said about Automotive scopes and there being compensation and filters for engine noise.....
Ok, i didn't know that (i'm not a mechanic)

as for the rugged part of it and grease and stuff
well. first of all, i'd be doing this at home
secondly, i figured i could put a custom made plastic cover or something over my scope
i mean
the Pico is a lot smaller, so my scope would have to go on a bench to begin with,
and i did see from you tube videos that Mechanics keep them on benches. so .. i figured this was a viable option
but, i didn't know about the filters for engine noise
thanks for bringing it up

overall, i get your point, thanks

Andy MacFadyen

hi mate,
yeah , see this is what i've been trying to figure out

the question of , WHAT DO YOU WE NEED When Measuring with a scope, is a question of ....
what can the thing that we are testing output ?
and since i'm not a mechanic i don't know what frequencies cars and engines are capable of
therefore the logical conclusion was, when i compare a Pico to my scope.
My scope has higher specs, therefore the better choice from that point of view

it has however, thus far, been made aware to me that there are engine noise filters and things as such that my scope does not have (To my knowledge) i'll look into it.

so..hey... You live you learn
but, i also think that this topic got taken way way out of proportion

hehe

see what happens when 1 SINGLE PERSON mentions the word HACKING hehe
the shit hits the fan like no one's business

thanks for your comment mate, i will take what you said on board
be cool