Exploder doesn't want to run!
- Posts: 5845
- Thank you received: 1424
Spark and injector pulse is present all the way to the stall. Spark is good n' strong, wire routing is correct. Feeding it carb cleaner doesn't change anything. Opening the throttle doesn't change anything.
Went in-cylinder on both banks. I need a double-check of my timing. Screenshots are taken during the highest engine speed achieved before the stall. The pressure waveform conversion is 1 mV = 1 PSI.
Can't upload the passenger bank to the forums - too big. Is it possible to downsize Pico files? I'll e-mail anyone that wants it.
Based on my limited experience using in-cylinder waveforms for timing issues, I believe the passenger side camshaft timing is late. The towers are leaning like a mofo. EVO and IVO appear late. I could be way off.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Hardtopdr2
- Offline
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 837
- Thank you received: 141
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
Tyler wrote: Can't upload the passenger bank to the forums - too big. Is it possible to downsize Pico files?
71pole@gmail.com ...I'd like to play, when I get home. :)I'll e-mail anyone that wants it.
Do you have a couple pulse sensors to throw in the Tail-pipe and Intake?
"Knowledge is a weapon. Arm yourself, well, before going to do battle."
"Understanding a question is half an answer."
I have learned more by being wrong, than I have by being right.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Posts: 5845
- Thank you received: 1424
I'll do a relative compression with spark timing and an intake pulse before I leave tonight. Exhaust will be harder to rig up.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Posts: 5845
- Thank you received: 1424
Chad wrote: But, :woohoo: that's an ugly looking waveform!
That'd be the Fluke PV350. I bought it five or six years ago, before I knew about the WPS500. Now I have regrets.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
"Knowledge is a weapon. Arm yourself, well, before going to do battle."
"Understanding a question is half an answer."
I have learned more by being wrong, than I have by being right.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
"Knowledge is a weapon. Arm yourself, well, before going to do battle."
"Understanding a question is half an answer."
I have learned more by being wrong, than I have by being right.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Posts: 5845
- Thank you received: 1424
Chad wrote: I was referring to the shape of the waveform. Not the tool. I have a PV-350 that I bought, used, about 10 years ago. I have no complaints with it. I have heard, though, that they started making them more cheaply a few years ago.
I gotcha. I found that the PV350 makes a ton of signal noise that I had to filter out with the Pico. Plus, mine won't zero out correctly anymore. :silly:
Is the PV-350 set to psi, or kpa?
PSI. For anyone following along, 1 mV = 1 PSI. I should add that to the original post...
I also got an intake waveform before I got kicked out of the shop tonight. This was taken with the injector fuse removed.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
It's a little more effort to convert to psi (mV/6.89), but the waveform is much better.
"Knowledge is a weapon. Arm yourself, well, before going to do battle."
"Understanding a question is half an answer."
I have learned more by being wrong, than I have by being right.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Posts: 5845
- Thank you received: 1424
Chad wrote: You will get, almost, 7 times the resolution if you use kpa. 1 psi=6.89 kpa
It's a little more effort to convert to psi (mV/6.89), but the waveform is much better.
I know, I'm just a lazy POS. :blush:
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
Chad wrote: You will get, almost, 7 times the resolution if you use kpa. 1 psi=6.89 kpa
It's a little more effort to convert to psi (mV/6.89), but the waveform is much better.
Should be able to do that with a custom probe. I've just thrown one together that I think should work. Put a 4 kHz low pass filter on it since Tyler's waveforms look like they need cleaning up :silly:
Change the attached files extension from zip to psprobe then import it.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
Here is Passenger side overlayed on top of Drivers Side.
"Knowledge is a weapon. Arm yourself, well, before going to do battle."
"Understanding a question is half an answer."
I have learned more by being wrong, than I have by being right.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
Another tech replaced the front cassette ONLY.
Are you referring to the Left bank, or the Primary Chain? Either way, the Primary had to come off. I suspect this is where the problem is? I think you need to check Cam/Crank correlation, and compare to Known Good.
This is an interference engine, too.
"Knowledge is a weapon. Arm yourself, well, before going to do battle."
"Understanding a question is half an answer."
I have learned more by being wrong, than I have by being right.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
Early IVO
Early EVC and IVO
But, late EVO?
"Knowledge is a weapon. Arm yourself, well, before going to do battle."
"Understanding a question is half an answer."
I have learned more by being wrong, than I have by being right.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
(Same waveform, opened with eScope.)
This is a SOHC, is it not? How can Intake timing be good (or advanced) and the Exhaust timing be late? :dry: Being an interference engine its hard to say what condition the valves are in. Although the RC and Intake waveform looked "fairly" good, with only one low vacuum pull on cylinder #3.
"Knowledge is a weapon. Arm yourself, well, before going to do battle."
"Understanding a question is half an answer."
I have learned more by being wrong, than I have by being right.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
Matt T wrote: And there appears to be a ~15* difference between the bottom of the pockets.
I noticed that, too, But other points line up. :blink: Being a SOHC and Interference engine, I was chalking that up to valve damage. But, honestly, I don't know. I can only speculate. I hope we get to see this one through to the fix.
"Knowledge is a weapon. Arm yourself, well, before going to do battle."
"Understanding a question is half an answer."
I have learned more by being wrong, than I have by being right.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
Chad wrote: IVC at 15° ABDC seems a bit early, to me. I have always heard a "rule-of-thumb" IVC of 30-60° ABDC.
Nevermind. :oops: Now, I see it is at 30°, not 15°.:blush:
"Knowledge is a weapon. Arm yourself, well, before going to do battle."
"Understanding a question is half an answer."
I have learned more by being wrong, than I have by being right.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Posts: 5845
- Thank you received: 1424
Chad wrote: Here is Passenger side overlayed on top of Drivers Side.
Dammit Chad, quit being so awesome. You're making the rest of us look bad.
This is a SOHC, is it not? How can Intake timing be good (or advanced) and the Exhaust timing be late?
Indeed it is. Part of the problem might be trying to analyze a waveform under transient conditions (the start/stall)? I find that in-cylinder testing is best done at steady engine speeds. I can make the engine not start, but cranking in-cylinder captures are kinda useless for checking timing unless the problem is obvious.
Would there be any value in covering the throttle body during a cranking capture? Maybe make the valve events more discernable? :huh:
And there appears to be a ~15* difference between the bottom of the pockets.
That's what first caught my eye. Glad to see I was somewhat on the right track.
ForTyler.JPG
Much appreciated, Weycraze.
Are you referring to the Left bank, or the Primary Chain? Either way, the Primary had to come off. I suspect this is where the problem is?
Correct, the primary chain, left bank. Here's a visual for everyone following along:
I've never had one of these engines apart, so I'm trying to familiarize myself with the setup as I go. :silly:
I think you need to check Cam/Crank correlation, and compare to Known Good.
I have, and it's a sad story. While checking cam/crank, I discovered that the latest Snap-On update for my Triton changed saved scope capture file formats. In doing so, they also made it so negative voltages get chopped off the saved waveforms. The scope displays everything perfectly while capturing, but destroys the waveform once saved.
See what I mean? Frustrating.
The CMP pulse appears to intersect the sixth or seventh crank tooth past the sync pulse. Here's a known good courtesy of ATG and Diag.net:
Theirs is running, and appears to intersect the sixth crank pulse. So, not all that far off, unless I'm looking at it wrong.
I hope we get to see this one through to the fix.
Please. :silly: When have I not come through with a follow up?
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.