2001 Honda accord .2.3 L VTEC running rich

Hello I'm new to this whole form looks pretty awesome but I'm pretty stumped on the 2001 Honda accord 2.O L VTEC   just got from the shop as they said it can't be fixed.  ..lma!
Yes it runs when it's cold in the winter as for now it starts and spuders running way too rich. Changed all the sensors related to fuel trim.. kind of stumped All right hopefully doing everything right in posting this cheers thanks for your input?✌️

I'm not seeing a 2.0L as an option for the 2001 accord. I see 2.3L for the 4-cylinder, and 3.0L for the 6-cylinder.

Do you have a scan tool to read the values of the sensors? If so, what is the value of the coolant temperature sensor pid?
What is the total fuel trim? And, what kind of activity/value(s) do you have on your upstream O2 sensor(s)?
 

Hey thanks so much for the reply yes my fault it's a 2.3 VTEC... And I appreciate your input.... Checked all the reference signals to the components... Change map sensor ECT sensor... All the sensors on the manifold except the IAC.... Fires up and plugs are totally wet... It's a mystery... All right thanks in advance

I understand that you have replaced all of the sensors but, if all of the spark plugs are wet, it is, likely, because the computer is commanding too much fuel. To understand why the computer is commanding so much fuel, we need to know what information the computer is receiving.

So, again:
Do you have a scan tool to read the values of the sensors? If so, what is the value of the coolant temperature sensor pid?
What is the total fuel trim? And, what kind of value/activity do you have on your upstream O2 sensor?

Knowing this information may take away some of the mystery, and give us some direction. 

 

Hey thanks yes I have a basic scanner Innova 3160. Yes it goes on data stream... Backprobed all the sensors and there's 5 volt reference signal going to them.. yeah you're right that's a definite on the computer commanding way too much fuel yes narrowing it down thank you so much for your replies much appreciated cheers

Hey Chad.. sorry slow response and getting back.. not sure if this will add any value or help in your question here is some pictures on the live data stream which is all I could obtain with the Innova scanner... Looking at purchasing or borrowing one to further the test but no luck... Question what do you recommend or use for a scanner for yourself..... Also just found out from the owner a more detailed answer on how the problem started... He burnt a valve on the engine R + R cylinder head.. got it all fixed and repaired and machined.. and then problem( Rich condition) then occurred...... Enclose your fine pictures attached not sure if they'll do any good let me know how I can add to it.. and by the way I totally appreciate your input and help on this like no tomorrow.. thank you so much.. cheers ?✌️

Hey Chad.. sorry slow response and getting back.. not sure if this will add any value or help in your question here is some pictures on the live data stream which is all I could obtain with the Innova scanner... Looking at purchasing or borrowing one to further the test but no luck... Question what do you recommend or use for a scanner for yourself..... Also just found out from the owner a more detailed answer on how the problem started... He burnt a valve on the engine R + R cylinder head.. got it all fixed and repaired and machined.. and then problem( Rich condition) then occurred...... Enclose your fine pictures attached not sure if they'll do any good let me know how I can add to it.. and by the way I totally appreciate your input and help on this like no tomorrow.. thank you so much.. cheers ?✌️

Hey Zfrtech1, I moved your thread to the Repair section. It'll be seen by other members there and get more traffic.

First thing that caught my eye in your captures was the MAP sensor showing 52 inHg with the key on and engine off:

 

With the key on and engine off, the MAP should be showing barometric pressure, which is usually somewhere around 28 inHg (depending on your altitude). 52 inHg is way too high. A skewed high MAP reading will incorrectly indicate to the ECM that the engine is under more load than it actually is, which can cause a rich condition.

Would you mind retaking the same pictures with the engine idling? With the Fuel Sys 1 PID showing 'CL', if possible.

I agree with Tyler 100%. At sea level, barometric pressure is about 30 inHG. The higher you go in altitude, the lower that number will be. A reading of 52 inHg is not possible anywhere on surface of the earth. 

Grab a volt meter and take some voltage readings at the MAP sensor, with the sensor connected/plugged in.

Pin 1 of the MAP sensor connector is the sensor power. It should be yellow/red and be at 5 volts. Pin 2 is the sensor ground. It should be green/white and it should read very close to 0 volts (less than 100 mV) with a volt meter. Pin 3 is the MAP signal to the PCM. KOEO, it should be about 4.8 volts and it should drop to about 1 - 1.5 volts at idle. 

 

Hey Tyler thanks a million for the reply... Yeah that makes total sense I replaced the map sensor.. still the same... Yes I can barely get it started.. it starts and then just quits after a few seconds.. plugs extremely wet. .. back probed the reference signals.. 5 volts to the sensor.... Do you know where I person can get the reference data for that stuff... Thanks in advance

Okay thanks a million Chad appreciate it.. running out now to check those voltage readings.. let you know here shortly thank you ?✌️

Okay did voltage check on the map sensor power on... Pin 1 5.01 volts pin 2. 0 volts
Pin 3. 2.66 volts. When cranking it spikes to 2.87 then back to 2.78 while still cranking...

All right map sensor readings drop back to 27.  . Not sure why that is

Did the map sensor dropping to a normal reading change anything? Or, is it still over fueling?

If you can get it to run, post the running data, as Tyler suggested.

Yes still totally over fueling. .. it will only run for a few seconds. In December when it was -25 it ran for a few minutes. So yes that's when I realized the rich condition. Well the readings of 52 in/hg is when the Map sensor is unplugged .. and 27 in,/hg when plugged in... And 2.68 volts when cranking over.. not sure where else to go from here so I appreciate all your help .. thanks so much in advance ?✌️

Are ALL of the spark plugs getting wet with fuel?

If this engine has a vacuum controlled fuel pressure regulator, pull the vacuum hose off of the regulator and see if it is wet with fuel.

Do you have a way to check fuel pressure?

The ECT reading is 64° F. Is that an accurate temperature for what the ambient temperature was for a few hours before you took those pictures?
The IAT reading is 72° F.   Is that an accurate temperature for what the ambient temperature was when you  took those pictures? Normally, you would expect to see the ECT and IAT to be within a couple of degrees of each other if the vehicle has not been running. You have a difference of 8°.
Depending on your location and the time of day, this could be because it is/was late morning and the air temperature has warmed up faster than the coolant temperature. Is this the case?

Have the fuel injectors been changed, recently?

The PCM ignores the O2 sensors when in OL so, this shouldn't be the cause of your over-fueling but, your O2 sensor voltages are 1.275 on both the upstream and downstream sensors. I would expect to see 450 mV on a cold start. This might just be an INNOVA scan tool thing, especially since you have not achieved CL, yet. I wouldn't waste a lot of time on it but, it might be worth while to check those voltages, if the sensors are easily accessed. 




 

Because the cylinder head was removed and reinstalled, I think it would be a good idea to make sure the timing belt was properly installed if you have not all ready done this.
Chad has a good point about the injectors if they were replaced during the head work.
poor quality or incorrect injectors could cause over fueling.
I also like to check fuel quality any time I have a no start with wet spark plugs. I have seen old fuel, 2cycle mix, diesel fuel, water contamination and sabotage (sugar in the tank), cause similar symptoms.

Yes it had a brand new fuel pump fuel pressure regulator... All new fuel premium lines flushed. . new distributor plugs .. valve timing is correct.. runs just fine when it's -25. -30 below. .. for a few minutes and then sputters and dies like is it for choke was on and not shutting off .. and had every sensor replaced on that intake manifold. ... Once again thanks in advance for your reply ?✌️

Well, that's certainly a strange problem you've got then. Chad and Tyler have given you some really good advice, and it sounds like this problem has been persistent for quite some time.
Is it possible that the MAP and TPS connections may have been reversed during reassembly of the engine? I think it was possible on this generation Honda if memory serves...
Chad asked, and forgive me if you answered and I did not see it, but is the coolant temperature pid of 65°F reasonable? With current ambient temperature in my region, even a non running car that has been stored outside would not have such a low coolant temperature right now.