PC Scan tool or Snap-On? That is the question...

Hello all, I am new here. I started working on cars at the age of 12 in 1972... no joke, I rebuilt a 390 Ford at 15 and then there was no stopping me! I ran a very small auto repair shop out of my dad's garage in my late teens to early 20's doing tune-ups and carburetor, engine and automatic transmission rebuilds; oddly enough I never worked on a manual despite the fact I never drove an automatic until 1998. However, the electronics revolution kinda left me in the dust and the dark for a while. I bought an Actron 9150 in 2006 and began to try to learn about all of the newer technology that was in my kid's 2000 era cars and now I use it for my 2000 Tacoma and 2001 Solara.

I am a subscriber to Scanner Danner Premium channel and am working my way through that 'curriculum' so to speak, great stuff, that! I have a background in electronics and refrigeration and I am a CNC Programmer by trade, so, I am happy to say that this all makes sense to me. I understand logic circuits, how to use a scope, which I don't currently own, coils, motors, sensors, etc. as well as the internal combustion engine both in principle and in real application.

With all of that as a backdrop, I am torn between the EASE PC Scan Tool and the Solus Ultra. The Troubleshooter in the Snap-On looks like it's worth it's weight in gold but the it's priced almost out of my reach. The PC Scan Tools offer better graphics, more storage, they're platform independent, upgradable since they run on PCs and such. Having said that, I will pay more to get what I need and feel better about it than skimping and getting something that doesn't do what I require. That kinda happened last time, I really wanted a KAL bi-directional that was about $700-ish but I had heard that SPX had just bought KAL and was going to shut them down so I opted for the less expensive Actron. I have needed that bi-directional control SO many times.

I just cannot handle the idea of letting anyone else work on my cars, I am just way too picky but my kids are now driving 2008 and 2009 vehicles and I am running into TPMS problems, P0300s, ABS lights, etc that I cannot currently diagnose. Oh, and in case anyone is wondering why my kids drive newer cars than me it's cuz 1) they bought them and 2) I'm cheap...

So I welcome thoughts on the merits of the PC platform versus the stand-alone dedicated scan tool, and also what brands you have experience with and how did it go?

Thanks in advance,
Gary

Hey Gary, welcome to the forums!

First off, gotta say...

I just cannot handle the idea of letting anyone else work on my cars, I am just way too picky

I know that feeling, lol. I used to do all my own wheel alignments when I worked at a shop that had an alignment rack. My current shop doesn't, so now I don't know how to get my car aligned. I saw first hand how everyone else in town aligns cars, they suck at it!

Anyway, on topic. I don't have any personal experience with the EASE brand, but I had a quick look on their website , and it looks like a good product. Only problem I saw was the requirement for a J2534 programmer to get access to the Enhanced OBD data (AKA the stuff you want).

Purely for my own interest, I started doing some pricing. The EASE software package with the Asian coverage you'll need is around $1400. A Drew Technologies CarDAQ-Plus is around $1600. Plus a laptop, and you're around $4-5000, unless you have a laptop already. The Solus Ultra, new off the tool truck, is around $4000, too. More for the shiny new Solus Edge *drools*

I'm a Snap-On owner, so here's the ups and downs. One big positive of the Snappy is the form factor. It's a relatively sturdy design, and never feels out of place in a shop. Most laptops are WAY less durable, and far less easy to work with around a vehicle. The Solus will charge off the DLC port, so you never have to worry about the battery going dead. Software and hardware support is always available.

Downsides include the software update costs. They release two big updates a year, and it's $1000 to get both. Tough to justify spending 1/4 of the cost of the tool on new software Another is the form factor - it does scanning very well, but nothing else. A laptop setup would allow for module programming (if you're interested), an additional scope (like a Pico!), plus anything else you might want a laptop for.

Bi-directional hasn't really worked its' way down to the sensible price for occaisional DIY use yet but Autel, Launch and Foxwell all have DIY priced models that cover Transmission, ABS, SRS, and TPMS in afforadable tools. Autel even have model that will do impedance tests on batteries.

As you work on a limmited range of models another option is to go for a tool giving dedicated one make coverage.

This a market that changes very fast and car systems are changing fast also how much you want to spend is a judgement call.
Personally I would go for a cheaper diagnostic tool and buy a cheap oscilloscope, even the very cheapest scope such as the Hantec 1008 or UScope is invaluable for tracking down faults.

Tyler wrote: I know that feeling, lol. I used to do all my own wheel alignments when I worked at a shop that had an alignment rack. My current shop doesn't, so now I don't know how to get my car aligned. I saw first hand how everyone else in town aligns cars, they suck at it!

Tyler,

I have never done a full front-end alignment but I have roughed in the toe and camber after big front-end component replacements and I certainly understand the principles of it... what I do not understand is, why is it that in the late 70's to early 80's with much less sophisticated equipment I was getting good front-end alignments done and now, as you say, everyone seems to suck at it? It is really disappointing.

So, back to the main subject... EASE offers a J2534 package that includes, of course, reprogramming capability and the full suite of scan coverage including Asian and European and they quoted it to me with a $600 discount saying that it is currently on sale. I like the idea of a stand alone scan tool for many of the reasons that you listed, especially the fact that the Solus is powered/charged off the J1962 connector, that's a big plus. I would not have that with a PC and the normal laptops are as you say not intended for that kind of environment.

However, and I did not go into to this previously, but I am also planning on getting a Pico 4425 with the Standard Package. So, I am likely to have to deal with setting up something for a laptop anyway and I do have at least one that is available to be the scan tool/scope. This will be a big pile o' cash to spend but I kinda think I can do some side work with this stuff and help pay it off but I'm not depending on it. I know how much I have saved just using a DVOM and that lil Actron. I have not paid for a car repair since the late 80s when I had an ABS system go bad.

I see on ebay that there is a guy right here in Houston that has a whole bunch of diagnostic equipment including several SnapOn scan tools, some of which are Solus Ultra with 16.2 software for $2,200 and he says that have the European software though I do not see any personality keys in the photo. I looked on SnapOn's site and it seem that there are special cables and keys required for European. I rarely ever buy anything off ebay and if I did buy something this expensive off ebay I would need a lot of assurance such as being able to go see it. He also offers a 30-day money back guarantee.

Thanks again,
Gary

Andy,

Thanks for the reply, I have looked at Launch and Autel but I had not heard of Foxwell. I am opposed to Autel because they pirated software from Ford and were, I believe successfully, sued by Ford. And that is really a drag because there scan tools seem to be pretty darn good and whole lot of guy recommend them.

This has been a daunting task for sure, I had no idea how many players there are in this market.It has been SO very helpful to have the Scanner Danner channel to watch what he is doing and get a really good idea of what I really need knowing the kind of repairs and challenges that I have faced over the years.

And by the way, I see you are in Glasgow, I have friend there! I was there a few years ago and helped start up a church called Harvest Bible Chapel, the pastor's name is Scott Hamilton and I met a whole bunch of great people. There was a big festival of some sort while I was there in the city center for bagpipers and it was great. I had haggis neeps & tatties and tattie scones, and man the food was great. Depending upon how our upcoming election turns out, we may be moving there!

Thanks again Andy,
Gary

Tyler tracking was a similar problem for me I let the Dunlop equipment we had go when I sold up the family business as it was pretty worn out through years of use. These days for our own vehicles I use a very cheap simple tool a Gunson Trakrite that measures the total toe across an axle just by driving slowly across it. As device seems much too simple but it is very accurate so provided you don't need to get involved a full alignment and are just replacing parts on one wheel it is ideal. Apart from that obvious limitation it's only flaw is that it isn't very robustly made so it is really just suitable for occaisional use.

rn8849 wrote: I have never done a full front-end alignment but I have roughed in the toe and camber after big front-end component replacements and I certainly understand the principles of it... what I do not understand is, why is it that in the late 70's to early 80's with much less sophisticated equipment I was getting good front-end alignments done and now, as you say, everyone seems to suck at it? It is really disappointing.

Truth right here. I do know from my time at Firestone that the techs are frequently pressured by management to do a so-called 'toe-n-go' alignment, when there are other angles adjustable. I butted heads with my boss all the time over stuff like this.

Another part of it, sadly, is the flat-rate mentality. Techs are interested in producing alignment sheets with all the numbers in green, even though the vehicle may still drive badly and wear tires abnormally. They figure, "The customer doesn't know any better, right?" Sigh.

These days for our own vehicles I use a very cheap simple tool a Gunson Trakrite that measures the total toe across an axle just by driving slowly across it. As device seems much too simple but it is very accurate so provided you don't need to get involved a full alignment and are just replacing parts on one wheel it is ideal. Apart from that obvious limitation it's only flaw is that it isn't very robustly made so it is really just suitable for occaisional use.

Ooooh, I like it! Simple or not, it looks like it works well enough. Just curious, how do you deal with centering the steering wheel? Spin both adjusters in equal amounts?

Well, I am still working on getting a scan tool and I have noticed that there are some actuator tests that are missing from certain tools, such as ABS Brake Bleed for my 2007 Equinox. I've checked two scan tool maker's information and neither have it.

My understanding is that it could be because the manufacturer of a vehicle may not make that information available for scan tool makers. So, what I would like to know is is there a place to go see what functions the manufacturer allows for their factory scan tool? That way I can compare that list of functions/tests/actuators to a scan tool maker's list of capabilities.

Thanks in advance,
Gary

Simple answer as far as I know is no --- not only that you will find some functions like activation tests claim to work but don't. On a model type I work on frequently I can connect to the ABS system after about 10 attempts. On other cars I find can only trust OBD2/EOBD pids to be reliable.

rn8849 wrote: So, what I would like to know is is there a place to go see what functions the manufacturer allows for their factory scan tool? That way I can compare that list of functions/tests/actuators to a scan tool maker's list of capabilities.

Not that I know of I'm sure you've probably looked at the Snap-On Application Guide . It says it'll do bi-directional testing, but not what tests, exactly

In your case, one thing you could try would be to look up ABS module replacement in Mitchell/service info, and see if performing an ABS bleed is one of the listed steps. That might tell you if the OE made the function available or not.

rn,
I too have been looking into PC based scan tool options. I was ready to commit to Ease, but since then I really think AutoEnginuity may be a better option. To me, it looks like it better fits my needs. They are similarly priced, so for me that is probably the way I will go as soon as it is financially possible. But I encourage you to do the necessary research to come up with the best option for you.
Hash

Andy.MacFadyen wrote: Simple answer as far as I know is no --- not only that you will find some functions like activation tests claim to work but don't. On a model type I work on frequently I can connect to the ABS system after about 10 attempts. On other cars I find can only trust OBD2/EOBD pids to be reliable.

Thanks Andy, not what I was hoping to hear but I appreciate the reply.

Tyler wrote: Not that I know of I'm sure you've probably looked at the Snap-On Application Guide . It says it'll do bi-directional testing, but not what tests, exactly

In your case, one thing you could try would be to look up ABS module replacement in Mitchell/service info, and see if performing an ABS bleed is one of the listed steps. That might tell you if the OE made the function available or not.

I did check the Application Guide, in fact I was just looking again this morning, looks like they put out another update, says 16.4 now. I will check Mitchell, that's a good idea, thanks.

Hash Cash wrote: rn,
I too have been looking into PC based scan tool options. I was ready to commit to Ease, but since then I really think AutoEnginuity may be a better option. To me, it looks like it better fits my needs. They are similarly priced, so for me that is probably the way I will go as soon as it is financially possible. But I encourage you to do the necessary research to come up with the best option for you.
Hash

I also looked at AutoEnginuity and i think if I don't stay with my current plan of getting a scan tool/J-box combo I may go with them after all. I am considering tooling up for reprogramming as well as getting the scan tool. Programming is what I do for a day job, I have a fair amount of experience with re-flashing BIOS, cell phones, CNC Machine EEPROMs, etc. so I think I can do it. Trouble is, the more I learn about it, the scarier it gets. I watched Dave Hobbs' "F.R.E.D. Takes the Bus" over the weekend and the part where he talks about having such a brief amount of time to get things right with a reprogram on a BCM (I think) with a Tech 2 before you're locked out was discouraging.

Thanks again y'all,
Gary

I was really torn between EASE and OTTOTEST, EASE did not have good AntiLock Brake Bleed support. They said they've been putting it in for "the Corvette guys" that constantly request it, but otherwise, unless the manufacturer provides the test they just don't seem too interested in pursuing it. OTTOTEST was really appealing because they have their own VCI that was developed completely in-house as opposed to EASE who uses the Cardaq-Plus 2. I feel that DrewTech is the market leader in J2534 but I just had misgivings about the possibility of having one company pointing the finger at the other if I had any problems. I was getting Euro support with EASE but they made no money back guarantee, which I suppose is not to be expected. OTTOTEST offered a deal wherein you pay $594 up front and then $99/month starting in the 7th month. I thought that sounded pretty good, but when I checked it out further, the $99/mo never ends, it's not like you pay for 15 months and that adds up to the $1,995 selling price and it's yours, if you stop paying they want the scan tool back.

The EASE interface, at least in the demo tool, and it looked to be the same as the live tool, was kinda confusing, the list of controllers that you are presented with it really odd. Often there were several for, say, the ABS, or the Transmission. I don't know how you were supposed to know which one to pick. I did like the ability to create custom parameter groups, that was nice. OTTOTEST's Mode 6 was in hex, that looks like it's a lot extra work to use. Also, EASE says they want $100/yr for Ford Secure Controls, no one else out there is saying anything about Ford requiring special licensing for bidirectional control but they insist that if I wanted bidirectional on Ford I had to pay that $100/yr for it.

That and there is just not much information on them out there. About all I can find are the videos that Delphi puts out in the Diagnostic Series; they market the Blue Streak Electronics scan tool as "Delphi Scan" whereas Blue Streak Electronics sells it as OTTOTEST. Another drawback is that BSE says it supports Toyota Techstream but not Tech2Win so if I ever needed it I'd be out of luck.

The Auto Enginuity does not have the graphing support that either of the other two have, the Verus I think has better graphing support. But, their sensor and actuator support looks phenomenal and their interface looks like one that I will be really comfortable with. Another plus was the AE tool comes with a year of updates, tech support too, I think, but I can say that for sure. BSE and EASE charge extra for updates if I have my facts straight. I like that AE built the software protection into the VCI a while back so you don't need a "dongle" (man, I hate that word) to run it. Laptops don't have a plethora of USB ports to start with and using up two for the scan tool was less than exciting. I am gonna get a Pico soon and it'll need a USB too. I bought a OBD2 extension cable because I would like to not have the VCI plugged directly into the DLC. I ordered the cable from OBD2 Cables, hopefully the quality is good.

Once I get some time on it, I will report back about how it's doing. I'm sure I am leaving a lot out, I should have taken better notes along the way. There are some many tradeoffs, it was a tough choice, hopefully I made a good one. If anyone has any questions I will try to answer them.

A lot has transpired since I last wrote about this... I had the chance to use a Verus for a while so I got a good feel for SnapOn and was pretty impressed with the software but tool itself wasn't in great shape, the touch screen was all but unresponsive.

I made the decision shortly after to go with the AutoEnginuity since the PC based tools have the advantage of me being able to choose the computer I want to use. Unfortunately, the scan tool had problems right out of the box. I contacted AE and they said they were aware of the issue but had been unable to recreate it in-house. They sent me a software update but that did not cure the frequent disconnects from the vehicles. I requested an RMA and was told I had to first speak to an Engineer about the problem. I did so, and also made them aware that I was having little to no success with Functional Test or Actuators as they call them.

The Engineer also said they were trying to recreate the disconnection issue in-house and sent me a patch for the recent update, that was a beta version. He asked me to run the patch and let them know how it did. I did so, I sent three emails with the data files that I had recorded. The scan tool was staying connected much better but exhibiting some bizarre behavior, report 3 rpm while idling, the screen was showing numbers with enough zeros behind it that it would reach clear across the screen and wrap around to halfway across the screen on the next line, and a huge LTFT. However, the recording that I made during that whole time was fine. I requested and RMA twice more and was continually asked to run more test and send more data. I did not sign on to be a beta test site so eventually I asked PayPal to step in and help. They did and I returned the scan tool for credit.

I found a nice used Solus Edge on Ebay and bought it, did not go very smoothly, it's a long story but SnapOn saved the day... I am so very impressed with them as a company both in the tools that they make and they way they conduct business.

I don't believe I could be happier with a scan tool than I am with the Edge, it is a great size, 5 second bootup time, powers off the DLC, easy to make recordings that I can go over later in ShopStream Connect, all of the Functional Tests work, even the elusive ABS Brake Bleed for the 2007 Equinox. Curiously though, our 2008 Mazda 3 has no Functional Tests available at all, there is only one Emissions test, if I remember correctly. I assume that Mazda just didn't make any available? I wish I had looked at it while I had use of the Verus but I didn't.

In summary, the dedicated scan tool that is powered off the DLC is so much more convenient than having to connect to a laptop and try to find a place for it in the garage while I am working on the car, trying to keep it balanced on the seat so that I can see it while I am driving, etc. It works best for me.

-Gary

Holy crap, man, you went round and round with AE! :ohmy:

Very glad to hear you're happy with the Solus Edge. The shop just recently got a Modis Edge, very nice to use overall.

What software version do you have? The lack of functional tests on Mazda's has been around for awhile But, they've started slowly adding tests in with newer versions. Mazda's usually have all kinds of bi-directional tests, they just don't get carried over to the Snap-On scanners for some reason...

If you're working on a rebranded Ford (like a Tribute), then you can manually ID the vehicle as an equivalent Escape and get access to all the Functional Tests

Tyler wrote: Holy crap, man, you went round and round with AE! :ohmy:

Yeah I did, it weren't no fun...

Tyler wrote: Very glad to hear you're happy with the Solus Edge. The shop just recently got a Modis Edge, very nice to use overall.

What software version do you have?

15.2 with Euro, I don't have the adapters yet but I will probably get them next year. The house should be paid off in June, then I want to get a Pico and the Euro adapters, maybe, I don't know yet. I might wait until the needs arises, I have a family member that has a BMW and a neighbor with a Volvo. I may upgrade the software too, but, I don't know if I lose the Euro that I have with 15.2 if I upgrade. However, my OS is on a micro SD so maybe I can shutdown and swap SD cards and restart in the older version if I need Euro.

Does the Modis have a two channel scope? I think I remember reading that somewhere.

Tyler wrote: The lack of functional tests on Mazda's has been around for awhile But, they've started slowly adding tests in with newer versions. Mazda's usually have all kinds of bi-directional tests, they just don't get carried over to the Snap-On scanners for some reason...

Well, that's stinky! Hopefully that changes soon.

Were you a student in Paul's class at one time?

We're all students in Paul's class in a way, right? But no, I'm in Kansas, has to settle for a local community college...

As much as I hate paying for updates, I gotta admit, they do add valuable new features!

Tyler wrote: We're all students in Paul's class in a way, right?

Well, I hadn't thought of it that way until you mentioned it, but yes, we are and I am happy to a student of his!

Tyler wrote: As much as I hate paying for updates, I gotta admit, they do add valuable new features!

I thought that the updates only added new model years, what kinds of new features have you seen added? I'm new to the high-end scan tools, heck my old Actron never let me upgrade at all even though when I bought it in 2005 they made it sound like there would be upgrades along the way.

Gary

rn8849 wrote: I thought that the updates only added new model years, what kinds of new features have you seen added? I'm new to the high-end scan tools, heck my old Actron never let me upgrade at all even though when I bought it in 2005 they made it sound like there would be upgrades along the way.

Let's see... The "Code Scan" feature on CAN vehicles was added just recently, maybe 15.2? The data buffer size on the scanner got doubled around the same time, from 2000 frames to 4000. When released, the Modis Ultra didn't have the scope zoom feature, and none of the Ultra series had Wi-Fi connectivity (for SureTrack), those got added later.

You could argue that most of those features should have been there from the get-go, and I wouldn't disagree with you.

16.4 added this new thing where the scanner pulls the VIN off the car automatically when it gets plugged into the DLC, whether you went into the scanner or not. That way, when you hit the "Scanner" button, it already has the vehicle ID'd for you! It doesn't SOUND that awesome in writing, but it's pretty darn slick in practice

PC base way better! Get the autoenginuity, that is by far the best for the money plus the pro package is awesome! The mode six OBDII is translated to easy diagnosis! Snap on is not even close to it! Even a Verus Edge would be a toy compare to autoenginuity. The troubleshooter is the only good thing snap on has now, you can google most of this info too or use identifix or iATN. I own Verus Edge and Autoenginuity so I know!!