[FIXED] 2001 ACURA CL 3.2 CRANKS/ NO START

guafa wrote: Jreardon: Completely pertinent. 250mA is to low for me also (unlees tools were not fast enough to graph peaks)

Tim.smith: According to pictures of spark plugs, i was expecting totally wet ones.

I mean, wet without resistors and dry with resistors (if it's the case, we can conclude something).

did you notice any diference with and without resistors?

I can't still conclude wheter is lack or to much fuel

okay so let me make this clear the plugs i took pictures of were the plugs that came out of the car when it first came into my shop.

guys i need to get caught up on some other cars at my shop i am going to have to put this one on the back burner for the moment it will give me time to make money lol and also give me time to step away and think about it for a bit to clear my head i will still check back here of course incase someone thinks of anything.

Find out why the injectors are using so little amps. I was expecting ~1 amp on each subsequent ramp, not 250 mA.

I don't think cam crank is an issue because there are no codes, there's injector and spark control, and my initial suspicion concerning the missing injector ramps after all of them fire, well, if the cam crank was an issue the missing ramps would be consistent throughout the capture, not just on initial crank, so that leads me away from cam issue.

jreardon wrote:

tim.smith1 wrote: how do i load a movie from a versus to the forum page

www.mediafire.com
www.zippyshare.com

I've think it's time we have a look at your cam and crank signals. When you have outputs that are not being turned on, like fuel injectors, it's probably due to bad inputs. Just look at the missing ramps !

You second question about the signals jumping around. That looks like a scope sample rate issue, if you had peak detect turned on you wouldn't see that. Long time bases cause this issue

damn i guess i did not subscribe i only went for the 14day trial or something lol i payed for subscription now how long does it take to turn me back on lol

does anyone have a location on ground g115 for this acura says rear of engine on alldata hoping for exact location or maybe a picture lol

nvm i found them alldata non oe says g115 for grounds that is wrong it is g101

Is it confirmed the injectors are have power/ground issue?

jreardon wrote:

I hate to disagree with Paul here, but I think this is actually a scope ground issue. :blush: :lol: Ignition coil trigger signals (and other signal circuits) look like this when the test lead is connected to the coil, but the scope ground either isn't connected or connected poorly.

That doesn't stop the amp probe from reading correctly, however, as it doesn't need an external ground. It makes it's own voltage, and doesn't need to be grounded to the car to work. That's why the amp trace looks OK, but the trigger doesn't.

For example, I got this off my car. Green trace is connected to the #3 coil, but no scope ground is connected.

I will redo that test tomorrow @jreardon. I will also post scope movie on computer grounds with key off then key on then cranking.

@ 21:30 in youtube video - during cranking, voltages will be elevated on all grounds which is to be expected. Also expect battery voltage to drop to 9-10 volts during cranking.
watch the green trace

Okay so new information also picks of timing. We disconnected fuel pump and made sure plugs and cylinders were dry then plugged fuel pump back in we got this engine to run around 200 rpms one at a time I unplugged each coil hoping I could pin down what cylinders were working and what ones were not. After all coils were unplugged this car stay running no difference I would describe it as dieseling. The car finally shut off it took a few trys but eventually started back up.

I then decided to unplug the fuel pump and see if I could make the car only run on carb cleaner only with no fuel pump it did and quite well once I got the mixture right.

retook coil and injector test coil was yellow off control wire injector was looped into under fuse for main relay that powers injectors with green trace amp clamp was set on 1 mv/1ma looks like 1.2 amps?

guafa wrote: Guys, do we know anything about injectors?

How about a balance test? but all injectors at the same time?

cheers.

This ^

The ramps look fine now at ~1 amp each

how would i scope all the injectors at once off the ground wire?

tim.smith1 wrote: how would i scope all the injectors at once off the ground wire?

Each injector has it's own ground wire to the PCM so you can't scope them all there if you're trying to get injector current ramp. For injector current ramp you need to go to common power feed. But you already captured current ramp so I'm confused.

If you're referring to the injector balance test, that entails installing a fuel gauge on the rail, energizing the fuel pump to pressurize the rail, and individually energizing each injector to check for flow. The balance part means ideally you want each injector to spray and drop psi on the rail, equally, in a set period of time.

If you don't have that tool to pulse injectors, you can energize each injector by grounding each injector control wire manually as right now we're just concerned about flow.

i do have the tool you speak of i will do that very soon tomorrow i was planning on running it on external fuel supply just in case there is something in the left over fuel in the gas tank. i thought you guys were looking to capture all the injectors on the scope lol i was confused cause i thought i did the only thing i could to show them all at once.

just so everyone knows my paypal was jacked up that is the reason i could not access SD premium

Each injector has it's own ground wire to the PCM so you can't scope them all there if you're trying to get injector current ramp. For injector current ramp you need to go to common power feed. But you already captured current ramp so I'm confused.

My mistake. When i mentioned "all injectors at the same time" i was saying is so weird to have all injectors failing at the same time. I was imagining an stuck open injector adding to much fuel on cylinders. Anyway, i think a balance test is necessary at this point.

If you don't have that tool to pulse injectors, you can energize each injector by grounding each injector control wire manually as right now we're just concerned about flow.

Another tests you can perform. 1. Take out the complete fuel rail, turn on the fuel pump and look for any injector leaking. 2. Taking care of any spark and with injectors firing in the air, crank engine and look for any stuck open injector (I have seen some injectors which only get stuck open when you turn it on).

Okay guys new info!!!!!! Today I took the fuel pump out put it in a brand new oil pan and poured gas on the oil pan I then used my fuel tester adapter to extend it from the fuel supply line to the pump in the pan car chugged for a few minutes and then ran great.so we drained the gas tank and drove the car lesson I learned just cause the gas does not separate and just cause it burns does not mean it is good gas. Thanks to everyone that helped with this you guys are great!!!!!!!!!