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1996 Plymouth Grand Voyager SE 3.3 liter Start,Run(1 to 2 seconds), Stall

01 Apr 2019 16:06 - Today 00:33 #28354 by rolo
thanks for letting me post my 7-month long issue.
From the title, my van will start, run(for 1 to 2 seconds) then stall out.
Below is my log from the beginning of this year till now, tools used, and test results currently in play.
Any help is appreciated
Plymouth Grand Voyager repairs from January 2019 to March 2019 currently

Van will now start for 1 to 2 seconds but will quickly stall and die-

Tools using – Mueller No.95 spark plug tester
ES volt/ohm meter
LED test light
OBD2 code checker and eraser
Small 12 volt drill battery for voltage testing
O’Reileys loan a tool program – Fuel pressure testing kit, Relay port tester for Power Distribution Center

Repairs taht were done to the Blue van up to this point 011019

For the exterior and engine side of the van---
Cleaned gas tank and filled with new fuel
New fuel filter – no leaks
New fuel pump - works and no leaks – spectra(China)
New connection hose from the fuel line to fuel injector housing – no leaks
Cleaned fuel injectors and checked for continuity and ohm tested within specs – no leaks
New fuel injector O-rings – no leaks
New drive belt
New air filter
New ignition coil
New spark plugs and spark plug wires
New PCM ( 2 new ones - sent first one back, not the original, still have that one)
Checked all relays and fuses, changed relays and fuses that were questionable
New battery
New camshaft sensor - Mopar
New crankshaft sensor - Mopar
New oil and filter
New radiator drain plug
New valve cover gasket (front not rear)
Code checker came up with no codes
New ASD relay, ASD back up relay, and Fuel pump relay – continuity tested and voltage tested
New radiator hoses
New water pump (gates)
New thermostat (stant)
New pcv valve and connecting hose
The alternator is good and no drain on the battery

Tried the heater connector (pin 21) behind the panel when sitting in driver’s seat, if burnt or bad replace. It’s good I checked.
Also, check all fuses and relays and recheck the ASD relay. They all passed the voltage and continuity test. test passed
Did the Adaptive Learn" step- by disconnecting the battery, turn the ignition on, headlights on, hold the brake pedal down all at the same time for 5 minutes. Still, the van would not run for more than 2 seconds.

Possibly recheck the instrument panel for messed up soldering connections. Did resolder the circuit board last year that I found at the junkyard and van would start and run at that time and everything was working well up till 101718 when the van would not start on that day. Weeks after the new instrument panel was placed in the van.
Also, try a new ignition switch- see below 0318-1919 notes.

011218 installed good relay and tried to start the van. Even installed an ASD relay backup but did not help. The same issue still van turns over and starts for 1 to 2 seconds then dies.

Doug at Hendrick Chrysler Dodge said try this --
Roll down windows, Lock all doors electronically, Unlock with the key the back liftgate door, Crawl inside and start the van. The van still starts, runs for about 2 seconds, then stalls- I did this and it didn’t work as well. Test inconclusive

022219 Installed new PCM from flagship one( second one from them), Note the Serial number does not match my old PCM but the part number for the PCM housing has the same number and flagship one says the PCM was flashed according to my VIN number. Page 2 and 3 of Powertrain diagnostics manual says open loop mode is the mode I am currently having an issue with (page 3 top of the page)
Need to test the cam and crankshaft position sensors at the pcm to make sure they are receiving voltage. Second check ignition coil. See case study – crank, start, and stall – Stoneyman.

022719 ground block wiring G302 test. Because the engine starts, runs, for 1 to 2 seconds then shuts down so the engine is receiving fuel.
Checking rear ground block wiring ( page 8W-39-1) --Found contact wiring connector for rear ground block wiring G302 but not the ground wire itself. – unfinished

030119 Relays test-- good as follows – Fuel pump, ASD, EATX shutdown, starter (page 14-38-39) – all good. Still need to check camshaft, crankshaft sensors at the PCM and transmission control relay. Unfinished

030319 performed a back probed PCM test for cam and crankshaft position sensors with and without the MAP sensor connected. Did not trust this test as my voltmeter gave odd readings. Example – orange wire read 11 volts but should have read 8 volts. Back probed LightBlue/Black (PCM ground) and got ghost voltage. So either a poor connection or short to ground. Got to cold outside to continue that day. Came back later that evening, got 8.8 volts with key on battery ground. Ghost voltage again for LB/BK with and without the MAP sensor connected. Need to try to get a better LB/BK connection. See 032319 where I replaced my volt/ohm meter battery and corrected this issue. Unfinished

030419 found more info on how to test the circuits that may be causing the issue with the van, also Ken at Bice Chrysler Dodge said he does not have a Mopar map sensor.

030719 Performed PCM power and ground validity test page 501 Diagnostic manual – test passed.
Rented Relay port and Fuel line pressure testing equipment and from O’Reilleys –
Performed ASD port test – results said replace PCM for the first run, the second test I have a short to ground. See- page 95 Diagnostic book results. Unfinished
Remember, have not tested new PCM (2nd from) from flagship one yet. – see notes below for 030819.

030819 Fuel pressure test results - 48 psi. test passed partially. Unable to complete fuel pressure test since van will not stay running.
How the test was performed, turned key ignition on and off about 5 times to increase pressure and observed gauge. Tried to start van with new PCM, the Same Start, run and stall results as before.

0312-1319 began to research the LB/BK wiring circuit from destination to source to see if a short to ground somewhere. Unfinished
Rechecked ASD Relay port 85 since test showed red and green lights were both illuminated. Only one or the other should be illuminated according to instructions for the test. Note – ASD Relay port may only be energized when the engine is running. Unfinished
ASD Relay 25 amp fuse looks good. test passed.

0318-1919 Ignition switch test - held key to run position to see if the engine would continue to run, but only caused the starter to continue to start the car after engine starts, runs, stalls again. Tried this at least 3 times. Test inconclusive

031919 – repositioned EET device and EGR valve behind throttle body position sensor from hanging low to upright( as they should be) to see if would make a difference. Opened throttle body housing and did not see any “coking” on the throttle body. Test inconclusive

032019 studied PCV valve testing but unable to perform test since the engine will not continue to run.

032219 throttle position sensor testing with the volt/ohm meter (page 8W-8-35). LB/BK = 12volts (should be a ground), RD/BK and Pur/BL = 5 volts. Test inconclusive
Decided to check the meter battery and fuses.

032319 replaced 9-volt meter battery with a good battery ( old 9-volt meter battery was measured at 9.4 volts with meter battery light on, when replaced old meter battery with new meter battery, measuring 9 volts, meter battery light went off). So assumed meter was now working properly.

032619 began using Mitchell1’s procedures for seeing if there are any trouble codes for the van’s issues here on their website----printed out circuit diagrams for Plymouth van and began watching scannerdanners videos for beginners.

Ran MIL test on the blue van. 1255 was code response which means no codes were found. Code 12 = no codes in memory.... Code 55 = end of list. Either one of those codes will not help for diagnosis! Test inconclusive
Replaced PCV valve and hose on top of valve covers since old hose was dried and needed to check PCV valve anyway. Tried to start the van. Start, run, and stall still present. Test inconclusive
Test NTC-5A checking throttle body position sensor calibration – unable to back probe sensor without piercing weatherproofing coating on connection or wires themselves. So cannot test with connector attached to the sensor unless piercing the wires.
Retested throttle position sensor connector for voltage and continuity, LB/BK on voltage test read 128+ volts which was odd. So switched to continuity test and hooked a test light up to battery positive and touched LB/BK wire connector and test light came on.
So assumed LB/BK is a ground. RD/BK and Pur/BL wire connector = 5 volts same as before. Possible issue with BL/BK ground wire.
See if there is a way to retest cam, crankshaft, and throttle body position sensors from PCM to see if they are operating properly. Maybe stick-probe the wires as they are connected to the sensors while cranking the car.
Continue learning scannerdanners vids for beginners
Follow up to repairs attempted on the van.
0405-0719 Test NTC -3A and 3B p 473,475 Diagnostic manual Fuel pressure held 40-41 psi for past 20 minutes – Test Passed
Test NS-3A page 9-6 and 9-104 Compression Test Shop Manual tested cylinders 2, 4,6, unable to test cylinders 1,3,5. No fuel on spark plugs but saw a very tiny small amount of oil. Cylinders tested had between 125 and 145 psi. Test passed. Also, no fuel on spark plugs indicates valve timing is possibly good.
Tested ignition coil firing between nodes 1,2 and then 3,4 but not 5,6. Did not see any spark between nodes tested. Unsure if this test will work for this vehicle. Note- when hooked up ignition coil wires normally, car starts, runs, and stalls as it has been. Firing order for plugs is as follows 1,2,3,4,5,6.

041019 Removed rear oxygen sensor to perform exhaust test. Reinstalled O2 sensor with anti-seize– torqued to 20ftlbs.No obstruction to exhaust. – Van Starts, runs, stalls as before – Test passed
So far Test NS-8A test has passed and only other test to perform is with a scope and or timing check.

041119 reinstalled old PCM – result = car cranked but did not start or run. Placed New PCM back into van – result = Start, run, stall same as before.
Indi at O’Reilleys says I need to have the pcm communicate with my key fob, that it’s an immobilizer issue, that my timing chain is probably ok. Study how a security system works and look for a locksmith who can possibly fix this issue. Indy said I am on the right track. Also, see if I can go ahead and replace the water pump.

041319 Installed water pump and lower radiator hose, called locksmith about syncing key-fob and pcm/ecm so car might start.

041419 Installed thermostat (old one was broken into pieces inside the engine), used threebond( same as used on chainsaw body mold) for the gasket sealer; and new hoses for cooling system; added new coolant into radiator.
Recheck all grounds from battery to at least one sensor in the area where having trouble. Look at diagram and black out the areas that are not an issue, then focus on the areas that are. Look for voltage drops on loaded circuits (battery hooked up) and lack of continuity of grounds (battery leads not hooked up).

041519 performed Computer relearn procedure with key in driver’s side door before hooking up battery leads.
Also performed a cycle test for potential theft alarm system from the web video where I attempt to start the car, and then let the car rest at the key “on” or “run” position at the ignition switch for 10 minutes. After 10 minutes I turned off the car for 5 seconds then repeat the 10 min then 5 second cycle 3 times. Since I do not have a theft prevention light, I just relied on time. Result = Car still starts, runs, stalls. Added more antifreeze to radiator, no leaks so far but need to heat up van to be sure.

041719 Performed Test NS-1A (no start test) Connected an inline sparkplug tester on spark plugs 2,4, and 6 and started engine for the 1 to 2 seconds it would run and received good spark at all plugs tested. Test Passed Partial. Also, while turning ignition key to the “on” or “run” position, I touched the EATX relay, ASD relay, and Fuel Pump relay and they all “clicked” , so assumed that they are all working.

041819 removed all skim codes from PCM today, van now starts and runs as good as new. The problem was the PCM was flashed for my van's VIN# but the skim codes were preventing the engine from continuing to run. There was no way to know this using the tools I currently have. Problem Solved
Last edit: Today 00:33 by rolo. Reason: trying to combine 2 messages into one so as not to further confuse anyone trying to help me

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