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FIXED Crank no start, no spark

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23 Nov 2016 14:00 #3645 by borntoroll
Replied by borntoroll on topic Crank no start, no spark
Did you connect constant ground also to the spark plug?

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23 Nov 2016 14:19 #3646 by jonathandean
Replied by jonathandean on topic Crank no start, no spark
Hi, yes, sorry I forgot to say that, I had an incandescent test light connected to battery ground just outside the rubber boot of the spark plug, I used an led light to touch the control pin, should that test of worked,

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23 Nov 2016 14:40 - 23 Nov 2016 15:17 #3648 by borntoroll
Replied by borntoroll on topic Crank no start, no spark
We don't know if there is a power transistor inside the coil we just think it must be there.
1.First of all they must all be connected to one power source.
2. Connect battery negative to pin 2 and a spark plug.
3. Connect battery postitve to pin 3.
4. connect battery negative through a 10k resistor to pin 1. And then touch pin 1 with incondescent test light connected to battery positive.
5. If there is no spark disconnect pin 1. Use the same wire with 10k resistor now connect it from battery positive to pin 1 through a 10k resistor. Now touch pin 1 with incondescent testlight connected to battery negative this time.
6. Don't leave a pull-up/down resistor connected to pin 1 for too long as you can overheat the coil. I think no more than 10-15 seconds to check and then a little pause for a couple of minutes.
Check couple of coils.
Let us know the results.
Last edit: 23 Nov 2016 15:17 by borntoroll.

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23 Nov 2016 14:54 #3649 by jonathandean
Replied by jonathandean on topic Crank no start, no spark
Are you checking here if the coil control is operated by power or ground?
Is the resistor absolutely necessary? I don't have one here and getting one soon could be a problem.
Are the coils to be left on the car and plugged in?


Thanks again

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23 Nov 2016 15:21 #3650 by ImBack218
Replied by ImBack218 on topic Crank no start, no spark
Is there any voltage coming out of the middle pin?

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23 Nov 2016 16:41 - 23 Nov 2016 16:44 #3652 by steve
Replied by steve on topic Crank no start, no spark
Just been looking through some of my old files and I have a mini one 1.4 vti compression test with ignition sync.
Looking at the trace it seems the transistor is inside the engine ecu
I have also attached a good Peugeot vti cam/crank waveform










File Attachment:

File Name: peugeot1.4...3crk.zip
File Size:753 KB
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Last edit: 23 Nov 2016 16:44 by steve.
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23 Nov 2016 17:22 #3653 by ImBack218
Replied by ImBack218 on topic Crank no start, no spark
Wow it does look like the transistor is in the PCM judging by the second waveform. Interesting. Why the 3 wires on the coils then... constant power, constant ground, and a computer controlled wire. I would like to know what the voltage is on the middle pin of the coil.

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24 Nov 2016 06:01 #3663 by borntoroll
Replied by borntoroll on topic Crank no start, no spark
Thanks for the waveforms. Flyback voltage spikes make it looks like the driver is in the PCM and it controlls ground side. So the primary must be 1 and 3. When computer commands 1 to be ground it energises the primery coil. When it switches off we see spark and flyback voltage spikes. seems legit ^)

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24 Nov 2016 07:48 - 24 Nov 2016 07:52 #3667 by borntoroll
Replied by borntoroll on topic Crank no start, no spark

jonathandean wrote: Thanks again for your help. No I can't make the coil fire, maybe I am doing something wrong but no the test light doesn't illuminate when I touch it to the comtrol. There is some very low voltage on the control wire,it was below half a volt and not constant, i measured it with a scope but the voltage level seemed negligible to me, a very small amount. I hope this info helps thanks Jonathan

Regarding your measurment of half a volt - a very good case study by Ivan
Can not insert correct timing - the forum doesn't get it right. The moment about measuring half a volt starts on minute 19.
Last edit: 24 Nov 2016 07:52 by borntoroll.
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24 Nov 2016 14:58 - 24 Nov 2016 15:03 #3688 by steve
Replied by steve on topic Crank no start, no spark
Right, had one of these in for mot today so grabbed this for you
Back probed the coil in cylinder 1 (timing chain end, what the French call cylinder 4)

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Last edit: 24 Nov 2016 15:03 by steve.
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24 Nov 2016 15:07 #3689 by borntoroll
Replied by borntoroll on topic Crank no start, no spark
Great info. Wish the yellow channel was a bit close to the green scale.

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24 Nov 2016 15:20 - 25 Nov 2016 07:18 #3690 by steve
Replied by steve on topic Crank no start, no spark
Here is the shopstream file if you want to put the cursors in for the voltage measurements

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Last edit: 25 Nov 2016 07:18 by steve. Reason: Add image

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29 Nov 2016 10:32 #3801 by jonathandean
Replied by jonathandean on topic Crank no start, no spark
The car is fixed now, there is a TSB for the body control module on these cars, also called the BSI module, it appears when the garage did the headgasket, when the re connected the battery the control module got confused and effect wouldn't turn the immobiliser off.I cant explain why i couldn't make the coil fire, and why there was no codes stored.
Thanks for all your help,and to everyone who replied, this forum is a really fantastic source of help and information.

Jonathan

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29 Nov 2016 10:37 #3802 by jonathandean
Replied by jonathandean on topic Crank no start, no spark
Hi, Just a question if you don't mind, what tells you the transistor is inside the ECU? Thanks Jonathan

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29 Nov 2016 15:23 #3808 by steve
Replied by steve on topic Crank no start, no spark
You can tell by what you see on the control wire
If you see coil negative



Then the transistor is in the ecu

If you see a square wave then the transistor is in the coil



Here's a good video
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05 Sep 2020 06:09 #42785 by kenny peug
Replied by kenny peug on topic Crank no start, no spark
please tell me what you did because my car is doing the same thing now

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