How do you reply to technicians that say they don't need a scope?
They say that they can solve any problem with a test light.
They say that if they have enough time (or parts) they can solve any problem.
They think that somewhere online is someone else with the same problem.
They blame the OEMs for making cars difficult to fix.
Frustrated lately with some phone calls looking for technical help on the phone. Most of these guys are looking for silver bullets and not diagnosing the problem with a scope or logic.
Enough time or parts hmm. Expensive way to solve an issue. Its this style of diagnostics that has crept into dealerships and way too many aftermarket mechanics. This is also how the general public thinks things are done.
Don't bother arguing with these type of people. Their mistakes and attitude will bring more work your way although hopefully not to the detriment of the industry.
I feel your pain. I deal with older techs that are used to pre OBD type systems. The one thing I have learned, these guys are afraid of what they don't understand. You would be surprised how many techs out there don't have basic electrical skills, don't understand fuel trims, and just change the part that the computer tells them to change. I agree with vb4me, repair a few of their mistakes with the scope and you'll be turning work away.
In my experience, most "technicians" wouldn't know where to begin with a scope. They have no idea how to test much of anything. And they are to lazy or ignorant to get training to do the job right
While we're ranting, how about the techs who can't even pull codes let alone use a scope. My favorite is when the "techs" tell me "the code says mass airflow sensor"...
Ummm, you left out ALL the qualifying information and picked out the part name you recognized. Thorough diagnosis...
Maybe Auto Zone is hiring.
When I first started my current job I soon asked if I might borrow some of the manuals with tech info so I could read them at home. Because there was a lot going on there that I wasn't too up on. Sure! Around that time they asked a more senior employee if he would like to move up and part of that was reading up on things. Upon being handed some reference material he replied "No thanks, I have stuff to read at home." Fast forward a few years and there is one guy in the shop who knows how to use the two scopes we have, reads everything he can get his hands on, AND is the shop foreman. That's right. One old guy who retired even brought in all his old reference material and gave to me because he said I was the only person he knew of that would value it.
Oh yeah, and I ran into first guy not long ago. Working in a shoe store in the mall. In the AC, doesn't have to get dirty, they probably don't ask him to learn anything much. Guess he's doing OK.
I think it's pure luck that these guys are diagnosing without a scope, I just smile when I see them starting to replace every sensor and module, then it still ends up in my stall to get fixed! In my mind there is no other way! I'm not a parts changer!!!!
When I worked at the dealer nobody used a scope. Nobody knew how. Nobody had one. I didn't even have one until after a few years. Bought a vantage. Upgraded to a vantage pro a few years later.
The dealer training program didn't include using a scope one single time. Ever. It blows my mind how I ever got along without one.
I've been independent for a while now and I feel like I've learned more in the past few years on my own than I ever did at the dealer.
What's more frustrating is being an independent and a customer comes in saying, " I had my car at the dealer and they changed ....This , this, this Ect, Ect....$$$$$ , $$$$ , and it is still having the same issue.
So, now I find the problem and repair it quickly, because I know how to diag with a scope.
1 hr. diag and a $50 sensor.
With great power comes responsibility.
I guess. lol
The really SAD part is. For the customer. I trained as a Mechanic in the 80's. And worked as a Mechanic for several years. But I left that world. And now I have 4 kids and 6 Cars to manage. Up until last year I took them to either a dealership. Or a local Mechanic I trusted. but over the last year. they have pushed parts. And the newest one is fluid flushes. Every single visit. they had some new service i needed. Well with 6 cars all those services add up. And then Just throwing parts at a problem adds way up.
So now i am back doing it myself. And thanks to SCANNERDanner I am learning way more then I ever anticipated. And being asked by others to diagnose their car.
This is really about education and mindset. it happens in all industries. Many people do not have the desire to go back to "school", And many educators are not doing a good job at making this topic an important topic.
I see it all the time at my job ,I work in a federal fleet repair shop that's apart of 2 other shops for this area. About 3 years ago I really wanted to get more into diagnostics on OBD2 vehicles since the bulk of my troubleshooting experience was on heavy equipment and trucks for the military. So I bought Scanner Danner's book and buried myself in it as well as videos and other books I bought used from Ebay. I was realty fascinated with using scopes and really wanted to learn more so I bought the Hantek 1008 and some accessories I started practicing at home on my own car and friends car while doing other jobs. My boss allowed me to bring my scope to work and use it there where I was able to show him the benefit of a scope. He was able to convince finance to allow us a budget for new tools and equipment and placed me in charge in getting use modern diagnostic equipment and some classes for all 3 shops through Standard. All this while my coworkers just take semi educated guesses at best and just replace part after part until it seems to be fixed. I offered a coworker to show him how to use the Pico and current ramp the fuel pump on a RZR900 that he suspected was weak. When I explained it to him he said "I don't see how looking at the current is going to show that it's weak, it's easy to change I'm just going to replace it and see IF it fixes it" . They bash what they don't understand and a lot of it is either sincere resentment towards modern technology or just the lack of motivation to learn new things. I know when I'm scoping something they're just thinking I'm wasting my time but the difference between me and them is that I have little to no comebacks because of a bad diagnoses while they regularly have vehicles "boomerang" on them.
Oh buddy, the frustration with the mechanics who think they've got a handle on it and don't need to know more because they can fix a car in 5 parts or less. It isn't so much that they don't think they need a scope, but refuse to expand their knowledge in diagnostics, basic or otherwise, the tools in which to do it, or learning the cars in general. Every day I see the guys I work with run into a problem they're unfamiliar with, run off to Google or Youtube for way too long looking for the answer to their problem instead of sitting and using some critical thinking for a few seconds. None of them know how to use a scope and have a very limited capability using PIDs to help identify a problem. Put it to you this way, last week one of the younger guys comes up and asks me to check the alternator output on a Volvo because the battery light kept coming on and mentions he tried using the ammeter on his DVOM but blew the fuse. Took less then 5 minutes to scope it and verify amperage output and condition of the rectifier. Completely clueless kids.
It's a lack of wanting to apply themselves to actually learn their trade and spend time and money on diagnostic equipment as opposed to just running to the internet looking for the answer. The sad part is it all falls on me when their comebacks become unpartscannonable for them. No use in getting on their asses about it, or anyone else with their mindset, because this is just their job. No interest or passion in it.
Don't even get me started on knowing how to read a set of manifold gauges...
Basically they are frightened they can't cut it, they think you have to be genius to use a scope like in the scienist in old 1960's SciFi movies like the Blob or Quatermass and the Pit.
" We're trying to plug a hole in the universe, what are you doing ?. "
(Walter Bishop Fringe TV show)
And I DON'T need a scope. Because I like, already have three. Wait, that Verdict M7 multimeter (that I love) is also a scope even though I don't use it that way. So, um, four actually.
Never overlook the obvious,I’m on the older side and still probably know very little.
That being said,it really doesn’t matter if you like how the industry Is changing or not just learn about it and have some common sense.
I work at a small independent shop and anything I learn is on my dime and my time.
I’m thankful that I found this site!
simple answer " you dont reply " if you have a scope and your making money because you have it in your kit then thats what counts " secondly the industry has changed I think at some point Paul said you are driving a computer in one of his video's a while back " and as far as i understand it test lights dont talk computer they talk grounds and power great tool to have in your kit but these days you need so much more
